In this episode, Peter O’Toole is joined by Albert and Vera Donnenberg, whose lives and careers have taken them through very different routes into science.

Vera shares the extraordinary story of escaping Czechoslovakia, becoming a refugee, and starting again before finding her way into biomedical research and flow cytometry.

Albert reflects on an early fascination with science, from reading about the human body as a child to creating his own museum at home.

Together, they look back on the freedom, curiosity, and opportunity that made science such a rewarding career, while also reflecting on how research has changed for the next generation.

Along the way, they discuss art, medicine, family, resilience, and the unexpected turns that can shape a life in science.

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