This is a machine transcription and therefore it may contain inaccuracies, errors, or mispronunciations. Notice an error you think needs changing? Please contact the Bitesize Bio team using this form: https://bit.ly/bsbtranscriptions

Intro/Outro (00:00:00):
Welcome to Flow Stars, candid conversations between Dr. Peter O'Toole and the big hitters of Flow cytometry brought to you by Beckman Colter at Bitesize Bio.

Peter O'Toole (00:00:10):
Hi on Flow Stars today. I'm joined by Andrea Holme from the University of Aberdeen, and we discuss how she was able to use her passion for traveling to her advantage during her scientific career

Andrea Holme (00:00:22):
From Malaysia, I went back to UK to Bath and from Bath to Exeter, Exeter to Singapore, Singapore, to Germany, then Finland, Canada, Alberta, Alberta, Australia, Australia, to Aberdeen

Peter O'Toole (00:00:38):
The differences between academia and industry.

Andrea Holme (00:00:42):
Um, I think in, well, definitely commercial is a lot more focused as in its results orientated

Peter O'Toole (00:00:48):
And why she thinks it's key to understand the theory behind your experiments.

Andrea Holme (00:00:53):
And I remember one PI saying to me, I don't care how you get the data. I just want the data and that's, you know, it gave me more gray hair.

Peter O'Toole (00:01:05):
And the advantages of being part of multiple network societies.

Andrea Holme (00:01:09):
Can I find an engagement networking to be involved in the wider scientific community and not to be narrow minded

Peter O'Toole (00:01:18):
All in this episode of Flow Stars? Hi, I'm Peter O'Toole from University of York and today on Flow Stars. I'm joined by Andrea Holme from University of Aberdeen. Andrea, how are you today?

Andrea Holme (00:01:34):
I'm good. Thank you. Uh, we have nearly got sun in Aderdeen, so we're very happy and excited. it's always good.

Peter O'Toole (00:01:41):
I I'm gonna start with a slightly odd question. Where is your accent from?

Andrea Holme (00:01:47):
Okay. Everybody has the same question and it's, uh, it's a long, short story bit is very short. So I was born in Glasgow. My mother's Scottish. Uh, my father's Norwegian. I grew up in Norway and I traveled, so I have a amalgamation of different accents. So, um, north America, uh, Australia, Singapore, Malaysia, um, Finland, Germany, um, and now back to Britain, you know, to, to Aberdeen. So , I feel like I've done a world tour.

Peter O'Toole (00:02:17):
The ultimate mashup accent, I think would be fair to say. So how long were you in nor how long were you in Norway for?

Andrea Holme (00:02:25):
Ah, so I moved back to Norway when I was six, so I was there until I was about 19. So that period of time really? So, yeah. Um, you can do the calculation

Peter O'Toole (00:02:40):
They'd say. And you came back to the UK to go to University.

Andrea Holme (00:02:44):
Yeah, exactly. So I went back to university in, uh, University of Glasgow, cuz I wanted to know what Glasgow was like. Cause I didn't really spend any time there. I had a good biochemistry department, you know, and that was recognized in from the Norwegian side of, uh, of, um, universities and education, shall we say, you know, their degree was recognized. Um, and then, you know, from, from Glasgow, I went to Surrey I did a degree in biochemistry and I was had say hand on heart, biochemistry is a good undergraduate degree and teaches you to think teaches you many different aspects, but I knew at the end of it, biochemistry was not for me. so I wanted to explore other things within, you know, biological sciences. Yeah. So I went to toxicology, it was molecular toxicology. I think I found more of a home there, uh, in the molecular biology side of things. Um, at least for that time in, in, in my life, uh, you know, and, and I really enjoyed that and, and then I've gone on and done other, you know, scientific, uh, study, shall we say, or, or areas, you know, so immunology and virology and bacteriology and all this kind of stuff. Right. Um, and, um, yeah, but biochemistry was, it was something else by the end of it, that, that bio totally floored me.

Peter O'Toole (00:04:14):
Good grief Astier and vert and vert as well was the, uh, the other big textbook. I, I was a Vert fan. My wife was actually astier fan. So we, we, we had one of each and we competed study together through biochemistry. She was biological medicine or chemistry. So when you came to do your degree in Glasgow, did you always envisage going back to Norway afterwards?

Andrea Holme (00:04:37):
No. It was a big world. In fact, I always thought I wanna go out and see what's in the world. You know, it's just almost like that. So I would say a claustrophobic feeling to stay in one place. I wanna go out and see what other people are doing, how other people do things, how different sciences done, what are everybody doing? I Don, you know, not, uh, too inward looking more outwards. So I knew I would be going elsewhere. Yeah. Okay.

Peter O'Toole (00:05:03):
We'll come back on these points, but you said you wanted to travel, so let's do this at right next speed. Like we were in a, some sort of smart machine that you get in and you go from Glasgow to, well, from Norway to Glasgow, to Surrey to,

Andrea Holme (00:05:19):
To, uh, I went back to Malaysia. So, and I did my PhD in Malaysia and that's, uh, due to family circumstances, you know, so, um, and it was good. And then from, from Malaysia, I went back to UK to Bath and from Bath to Exeter, Exeter to Singapore, Singapore to, uh, briefly Germany then Germany to, uh, Finland Kuopio. And then I went from Finland to Canada and Alberta, Alberta back briefly to Kuopio Kuopio in Finland to Australia, Australia to, um, Aberdeen via route of Dublin to see my sister. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:06:04):
Okay. I, you know, I think I put a suitcase on a plane once and I think that was the journey it took before we actually got back to me. That is quite,

Andrea Holme (00:06:13):
You know, why

Peter O'Toole (00:06:17):
That is quite a remarkable career in a short breath of time. Cuz it's not, you know, you are not near the end of your career anywhere near it. Yes. So Already That, that's a huge, where, where did you spend most of the years? Where have you spent longest?

Andrea Holme (00:06:33):
You know, I don't know. I feel like I, I guess Singapore, cuz that was about seven, eight years, you know? Um, that's probably the longest. Yeah. Um, and most of them it's probably been four, five years and then going on to something else, you know, there's new, opportunity's always in the horizon and you could see or do something different. And

Peter O'Toole (00:06:56):
So did you have a fancy putting roots down in any one of those locations? Were you always moving purely because not, not just as the job that excited you, but because you just wanted to go and see somewhere else.

Andrea Holme (00:07:07):
Yeah. That's a good question. I think it's when I was younger, not so much, you know, um, it was always what is new? What is, what is, what can we go and discover? Right. And how can um, but as I've got, gotten a little bit older, maybe more mature wise. Yes. Um, and I would say that Finland will always, when I went to Finland, I felt like I was going back into the Scandinavian lifestyle a little bit. It was a little bit different still, you know, at the land of the thousand lakes, it's a very beautiful country. Um, and it just has a very, I would say softness to it. There's something about it. It's just very calm and it's just, you just breathe. And I really, I have a, a big soft spot for Finland and I could see myself sitting there in front of the lakes, you know, um, mid summers night, uh, with a nice cold beer or whatever you want, you know, and you just, uh, have a sauna relax. And, and that is roots. I think to me, that's a, a place I cover roots. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:08:12):
Okay. So quick fire Finland or Norway,

Andrea Holme (00:08:16):
Finland,

Peter O'Toole (00:08:17):
Malaysia or Singapore?

Andrea Holme (00:08:20):
Singapore,

Peter O'Toole (00:08:21):
Singapore, Finland.

Andrea Holme (00:08:22):
Ooh. Two very different ones. Can't make a choice. I would have a house in both places if I could.

Peter O'Toole (00:08:28):
Okay. Canada or Australia?

Andrea Holme (00:08:30):
Uh, I think Australia actually. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:08:34):
Okay. Australia or Finland

Andrea Holme (00:08:36):
Again, it's a hard choice are very different. Yeah. But I'm almost tempted to say Finland. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:08:43):
Okay. So Finland or UK

Andrea Holme (00:08:50):
Hard one in a way. But I think I still go back to Finland. Yeah. Oh

Peter O'Toole (00:08:53):
Yeah. There you go.

Andrea Holme (00:08:55):
Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:08:56):
So if you, if you're listening from Aberdeen, Andrea's going soon. She's just,

Andrea Holme (00:09:00):
See that get normal gray hair. No, no. I I'm thinking, uh, you know, Aberdeen to, to San Diego, you know, maybe that's the next stop or I haven't been to south America and I haven't been to China or Africa. So, you know, there's still a lot to see in the world.

Peter O'Toole (00:09:21):
So you're not looking to settle, put roots firmly down yet. You've all you've already scan. Say San Diego, Latin America, China, all places on your, your wishlist.

Andrea Holme (00:09:33):
My my to-do list. Yeah. you never know. Right.

Peter O'Toole (00:09:36):
Sent me some pictures and we'll come to those pictures later. And in fact, I think Alberta was maybe some of the better ones. You sent me a picture of Alberta, which is looking very dry and sort of desert like

Andrea Holme (00:09:48):
Uhhuh.

Peter O'Toole (00:09:49):
And you sent me a picture of Alberta that is covered in

Andrea Holme (00:09:53):
Snowy.

Peter O'Toole (00:09:55):
I know you are up in Scotland where you'll also have the sunny days wet days and snowy days, see mm-hmm these places have quite mixed climates and yet other places you've gone to, I, I I'm sure you sent me a picture of Singapore as well. There you go. Classic classic picture the night sky of Singapore, which doesn't have such a very climate

Andrea Holme (00:10:18):
Mm-hmm .

Peter O'Toole (00:10:19):
So what you prefer, do you prefer the dramatic, the seasonal weather or you prefer yeah. It's Groundhog day, same weather each day, day in, day out. Almost.

Andrea Holme (00:10:32):
It's exciting. It's really hard. And I think that's part of the problem because you get used to, um, you know, experiencing different things. So I know when I came back from the tropics, there was certain sounds, you know, birds would make so certain types of birds I would miss like, cause I'm used to it in the morning and you're used to the heat, the heat and the humidity. Um, and then when you were in the tropics, you, you miss a seasonal weather. Um, so I decide on my range is sort of minus 25 to plus 25 is, is quite optimal for me. Um, you can get up plus 30, uh, a minus 45 is not for me. So I experienced that in Alberta and I was, that was not, not good. , you know, and this places in Canada this minus 60, but um, wouldn't like to try that now, but I think, and you know, it's climate wise, you know, it's, it's, it's hard. We all like to have sun. Right. Uh, and we all like to go skiing as well. So yeah. Yeah. A private jet just fly around the world.

Peter O'Toole (00:11:36):
It. Isn't just traveling that you've changed around you. Obviously you started, you say said a biochemistry went into toxicology. You mentioned that you looked at different sample types. When did you first get involved with flow cytometry?

Andrea Holme (00:11:49):
Well, that's a good question. So we had a flow cytometer when we was in, um, Malaysia. So, uh, we was, the, the lab was being started up and, you know, there was a lot new equipment coming in. Um, and they invested well in that. Uh, so that would've been doing my PhD and started to, you know, dip my toes into it. And then, you know, there wasn't wasn't anything in Bath or at the time, but it such a, had one sitting in a cupboard. I remember it was a Beckman Culture one and I was very excited cause I kind of knew what it could do, you know, I wasn't, uh, uh, necessarily needing at the time I knew it could, you know, apoptosis and everything else encounted very quickly. And, uh, we had the opportunity if we wanted to, was try to put it all back together. And we sort of started doing that before, just before I went to Singapore. And then of course Singapore had flow cytometer and we bought the laser scanning cytometer form comp site, which is what I eventually anchored and started. Yeah. Yeah. So it's been a bit sporadic until it sort of came full force really in Singapore I think. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:12:59):
Cause that I presume was through a research career yeah. Through academic and then you ended up actually running cytometers and actually that became your science. So instead of the, the application, actually the technology and the application of the technology became your science. So that that's quite a different step from being, you know, primarily one singular focus to being quite broad, direct, to focus and supporting as well.

Andrea Holme (00:13:30):
It is. Yeah. But I think, you know, understanding the technology is a focus, right. Um, you have to understand that actually apply it correctly and get correct data. And I remember one PI saying to me, I don't care how you get the data. I just want the data and that's, you know, it gave me more gray hair shall we say? Cause I like, well that that's not great. You have to understand how you get it. So, you know, you've got good data and that you have done it correctly and you can interpret it correctly, you know? Um, so I think that that focus of understanding the technology, um, perhaps shifted was a shift there, you know, from being an academic or traditional more academic postdoc, going into core facilities and understanding how to use things. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:14:23):
Is it a good step?

Andrea Holme (00:14:26):
Sorry.

Peter O'Toole (00:14:27):
Is it a good step in your career? Are you glad you moved out the sort of the, the hardcore research? I it's still hardcore research, but so single track into the more core facility track.

Andrea Holme (00:14:37):
It's a yes and no, I think it's 50. Um, I think it depends a lot with people who you work with, if they recognize what you're bringing to the table, um, at least within universities, a lot of times you will hear things like we are service providers, uh, which yes, we provide a service, but also lecturers provide a service as in they are teaching, right. They give formal lectures. Um, we bring a lot of, uh, knowledge about, you know, how instruments work, uh, the techniques, everything that has to go in for them. Right. Um, we also have to explain and also educate users on students, on data analysis and interpretation, whether or not they're interpreting correctly within the biological model. So if that is valued and you're considered as a partner or a collaborator, then it's a very rewarding. But if someone takes all that knowledge and experience from you, which you have gained over 20, 30 years, you know, depends how long you've been doing it or even, and don't acknowledge that. Um, then it's, it's very disheartening, I think. Yeah. So, yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:15:59):
Have you encountered both environments where it has been very supportive of core facility type infrastructures and uh, the career tracks and the recognition of the expertise and other places that have just, it, it, it's not so well appreciated the skills that are required.

Andrea Holme (00:16:18):
Oh, for sure. Yes. Uh, I, I definitely have encountered both. And, um, , um, I think, you know, career track is, is we have to change our way of thinking, right? It's not no longer this traditional academics who are, uh, writing out a little bit of grants, et cetera. And they, everything, uh, is kind of, sort of around that. You know, um, I, I think we need to change that, uh, if you don't do a PhD or if you decide to go into the more, as they say, technical professional roles, which is actually part of the university infrastructure, right. We run the university in many aspects, you know, we are the glue that, the whole things together. Um, we, we, the, the career track has to be recognized, you know, and you need to be able to, um, reward people who actually are able to improve it as well and drive it forward in, in, in different ways that make, than you bringing in funding perhaps, um, in the traditional manner. Because if not, you're not going to keep those people either. So, you know, if you have, um, someone in a professional technical track and, and they develop a, um, a good core facilities, as we're talking about core facilities, they should be, um, recognized for that, you know, and, and promoted for that, so that you don't just hit that glass sort of glass ceiling type thing. And then that's you, and then you see your, your peers continuing up on academic track and being recognized for these. Um, and it's also very important. Um, I think for the, for the nation as well, if I can put it that way, because if you have a national infrastructure and a national program that recognizes a infrastructure, um, you can get better support and funding, which for these instrumentations and people who have that expert knowledge and that will, you know, really drive, um, innovations in new commercializations. Um, and I think that Australia recognizes it very well or has done in the past and very well connected EU has to a certain degree as well. And, um, and of course, Singapore has always had the, the ability to have a very long term, um, view, you know, they'll roadmap it for 20 years and bring out a star and, you know, recruit people, et cetera. And, and so I think it would be very nice to see that in the UK as well, which I'm sure it, they do to a degree.

Peter O'Toole (00:19:01):
Cause I, I actually think the UK's really good. I I've gotta stand up. I, I think, you know, we've got the technician's commitment that's been worked on. I think the funding panels allow us to apply for primary funding. Yeah. Uh, which, which is great. And the recognition of that there is a big drive. And I think there are sectors that are missing. I think at York, you know, this, this was recognized back 20 years ago when we opened up and they really supported the careers and the infrastructure and support behind it. But maybe that's not the case everywhere in the UK. And I was gonna ask what it was like compared to other countries. Cause I've also heard other countries complaining about their lack of support compared to what we have in the UK. I think investing UK. Exactly. So that's interesting. Yeah. Regional within the UK as well.

Andrea Holme (00:19:45):
Exactly. Right. And I think it's regional in every country. Right. If I looked at Australia, Sydney and Melbourne are the two big hubs, right. It's a bit, a little bit look at like, uh, London and Cambridge Oxford. Right. Uh, so obviously you get a lot of nice infrastructure down there, et cetera, as well. And I, I think what you've done in York is, is, is great. Um, and it sort of all connects into each other. Um, I, and it, yeah, so, so it's definitely regional. Um, and this country based and what I've always also found interesting is that certain co well, a lot of countries, they will look at what other places do for example, Australia say, oh, look, what's, Europe's doing, they're doing it really well. Let's adopt that. And, and vice versa. Right. So it it's, uh, and then Canada comes along and says, this is really good. We should have something like the, the technicians commitment, et cetera. So, so all, you know, slowly trickles along and, you know, improves things. Yeah. So

Peter O'Toole (00:20:41):
Thinking about, I will come back to the core bit in a minute, we'll just go back to your earlier part of your career. You, you, haven't just been a hundred percent academic if I'm correct. You've also worked for some companies as well. So you've been on the commercial side of research. Mm-hmm how did that compare to academia?

Andrea Holme (00:20:58):
Um, I think in, well, definitely commercial is a lot more focused as in is results orientated. Uh, it's not that you are no longer thinking as a scientist or, or anything like that. You know, you have to apply your scientific thinking and knowledge, so you're not losing anything. Uh, but you know, there is very much is a business plan and you have to actually achieve those results if possible. And I think what is interesting or what I learned with working with these, these, um, entities was to actually assess very quickly if something is going to fail. So is it going to work or is it not going to work and keep doing that through the lifespan of the, the project, because if it's going to fail and you don't think that it's going to be easy to overcome, it's not the right time to do that. So don't waste your energy. Yeah. And I think if academics or a university environment could take that and think this is my research, this is my research theme or my lab, what's the business plan. What do I need to do to be successful within that business plan and be a little bit ruthless and say, it's not just because I'm interested to know how something works. It might not be the right time to do it. Right. We don't have technology, we don't understand enough to do it. Um, but don't put everything into that, all your eggs into one basket. I think if people were a bit more ruthless in, in their own, uh, research and, and then sort of think of it as a business plan, they would be more successful.

Peter O'Toole (00:22:45):
Yeah. I would say to an extent, of course, I, you've done a PhD and we'd have banged our head against a brick wall for three months or more getting nowhere going until we cracking mean, and maybe in a business that that would not be acceptable to keep going against the same until you actually get over that hurdle or find a solution around this. Yeah. So you've had the academic side, you've had the commercial side, I would say now you're sitting in the middle of that. Mm-hmm as a core facility, which also brings in not just the scientific skills, but the management skills as well. So how, how much, how much, what percentage of time would you say now has matured into management over actual research effort?

Andrea Holme (00:23:35):
Oh, um, I think really, I don't do that much management, uh, much research. It's more management. subconscious topic. I want to do the research, right? yeah, no, it is. It's definitely, I would say at least 70, 80% is management and 20% is, is gonna be doing actual science, but probably I'm fortunate in that I have a very good core staff, uh, who, you know, if they don't know the answers, they will come and ask me and they, they update me. And so I say, they're very good at managing up, which you know, is very important, you know, to have that team. So I'm there for when things don't work. So I'm a problem solver, I think is probably what my job is there.

Peter O'Toole (00:24:21):
Okay. I gonna say, if anyone's listening that that's in their early career and thinking, oh gosh, I don't wanna do management. And I was interested in a core facility and now it sounds like it's all management. It's, it's really not, you know, at the start it's a hundred percent research, you know, it it's applied research, uh, and helping others solve the problems only as things move on. Does it become, if, if you are minded that way, then it becomes more management, but I'd actually say a lead academic.

Andrea Holme (00:24:50):
Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:24:51):
Exciting thing. 90% management, you know, there's 10 cent thought process, but the rest is just yeah. Managing teaching the actual time for research becomes much less

Andrea Holme (00:25:03):
Exactly. You. And I think, you know, as you, as you progress, you have to think about it as being a leader. Right. And allowing delegating ideas and say, run with it, you know, prove me wrong or prove me. Right. and, and trust that what people will do that. Right. And, uh, and, and have feedback as well. You know, saying this is not working. I cannot do the job. For example, I can't, or I could do the job really well. Uh, but these are the tools I need. Right. And your job, or at least my job now is to find those tools and to make sure that that's in place so people can do that. Right. And I get enjoyment out of listening to what the data is. Right. So people come back and tell me the results. I don't, I don't have to be at the bench doing it anymore, even though I enjoy it. And I, I do it to keep my hand . But yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:25:56):
So thinking of tools, not just cytometers or other instrumentation techniques, there's obviously tools that you need to learn for the management side, which, which your PhD and the other jobs won't have incorporated. So how did you learn the management skills?

Andrea Holme (00:26:12):
I think trial and error, to be honest

Peter O'Toole (00:26:14):
On the job experience.

Andrea Holme (00:26:17):
Exactly. Yeah. Very much so. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:26:20):
Yeah. And, and where, what has been the most challenging time you've had to date in your career?

Andrea Holme (00:26:26):
That's a very good question. Uh, I mean this, I mean, life throws so many curve balls, right. And so you, yeah, you just gotta roll with, make the, I do. Um, I think something which I still struggle with, if I'm honest, is trying to make people understand, um, what works and what doesn't work within, in, you know, an organization or infrastructure. Right. So it's change that mindset sometimes. Um, that's a big challenge cause that's people management and it's, uh, trying to influence, uh, so if anybody's got any ideas, how you do that, well, send me bill points.

Peter O'Toole (00:27:17):
You can guarantee that's also specific to their environment of how, what worked in one place won't work in another that's for sure. Yeah. Uh,

Andrea Holme (00:27:26):
Sure.

Peter O'Toole (00:27:27):
What about one of the, what's been the most, uh, fun time of your career

Andrea Holme (00:27:33):
In my career? The most fun time would've been my postdoc, you know, cuz I PhD, I was like, okay, you gotta get it done. You gotta get out there. You gotta, um, you know, uh, focus and, and work hard and get that. And when you came to your, your, your sort of, uh, the, the post time, it was like, okay, now I can explore more, you know, there's more freedom. Yeah. Um, yeah. For better or for worse, I dunno. You can get very sidetracked. right. So, yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:28:03):
Have you had any inspirations people that have inspired you as you've gone through that career?

Andrea Holme (00:28:12):
People that have inspired me? Um,

Peter O'Toole (00:28:14):
So given you a path and think, yes, I wanna follow that path or yes. That's gonna encourage me to do this more.

Andrea Holme (00:28:23):
No, but no, I would. And I, I sometimes feel a little bit sad about that, you know, because some, a lot of people would say they had someone who really inspired them or was a good mentor for them. And I don't feel like I had that or not yet. At least you never know, but I will say that going to conferences, I always enjoy because you go out there and maybe that's where the inspiration comes. You go out there, you listen to what people are doing. You talk to people who are, uh, either your peers or who are, you know, maybe junior or more senior. Um, but what they're doing in the fields as a whole and where it's going, that's inspiration. I always come back from, from those small, big or small and I'm going okay, now we've gotta get back into the lab. and do something. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:29:18):
What is your favorite conference?

Andrea Holme (00:29:20):
Oh, my favorite conference. Um, okay, well I'm gonna say two things. One is Keystone conferences were always good cause it's quite small. Right. And, um, it was always something new. I, I love the fact that you can learn something new. Um, and then, you know, well, I haven't, haven't had been to, uh, Flow UK, so I'm gonna reserve that one for later. Uh, but I, every time I've gone to a ISAC conference, CYTO conference, um, and I know that every year, et cetera now, but they used to only be every two years. So it was very exciting. Um, but I really enjoyed that because it was so easy to talk to people and, you know, I didn't, when I started, I had no idea right. Who these people were and I'd be standing in line for something and someone would talk to me. And I think that was really, really nice. Um, that was very open and, uh, welcoming environment. Yeah. So scientific ones. I was, well, I should say, you know, sort of more the, the, the, when I was doing a lot of work in apoptosis, the Keystone was really good, but then in cytometry I've always enjoyed.

Peter O'Toole (00:30:23):
Yes. I think CYTO has to be the lead conference. Uh, so are you going this year?

Andrea Holme (00:30:29):
No, I'm not. So I, I was a little bit sad, so, um, but I hear it's in Montreal next year, so I have some really good friends in Canada as well. So, you know, I can, uh, probably put, put, going to Montreal and going to Halifax to see them in one basket. So

Peter O'Toole (00:30:45):
If they've not released that information yet, we'll edit that bit. Uh, so we've got joke some quick questions actually. Do you have any bad habits?

Andrea Holme (00:31:05):
Oh yeah. Everybody has bad habits. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:31:07):
What is one of your bad habits? Well, not literally give it as in what is one of yours?

Andrea Holme (00:31:12):
Um, okay. Uh, bad habits. Uh, one thing is that I definitely drink too much. Coca-Cola I can tell you I live off it. So yeah, my sister will definitely just say that I also need coffee, you know, it's it taste about three, three cups of coffee to get started. Um, uh, other bad habits. Um, I procrastinate. It's probably a big one. Yeah. That's

Peter O'Toole (00:31:45):
Just science

Andrea Holme (00:31:45):
Thinking. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:31:53):
Okay. Uh, what about pet hate? What what's, what habits other people's habits annoy you or what they do? What annoys you

Andrea Holme (00:32:01):
Within the scientific field? I should say, you know?

Peter O'Toole (00:32:04):
Oh, no, just anything

Andrea Holme (00:32:05):
Anywhere. Okay. So definitely if I, if any students are listening there, please read more. Um, you know, I'm, I, I say don't just walk up and ask, oh, um, how do I pipette X and Y right. Think about things a little bit, read a little bit more. That's my pet peeve, probably. Um, uh, just because I think, um, you should read a lot as a sci, you know, you're doing science or you, even if it's community science, right. Uh, we can be involved in that. Here's what I found. Yeah. Even siri agrees with me though. oh, dear. Um, yeah. It's, it's not, uh, yes. Be proactive, I think. Um, and other pet peeve, I think probably not. And I'm not always good at this, but not trying to understand, you know, when people don't try to make the, understand the effort to understand other person's point of view, because nobody is a hundred percent right. So, um, you know, I think there's, there's always two sides to every coin. So a lot of people don't take that moment just to think, what is it the person's actually meaning. And, um, yeah, that's, that's probably something that I would say,

Peter O'Toole (00:33:31):
So. Okay. So that can get you stressed when you get that situation, what do you do when you finish work? You've had a stressful wait day. What sort of hobbies do you do when you get home?

Andrea Holme (00:33:42):
Good question. Yeah. At moment, I don't feel like I've got any hobbies. It's really interesting. that's okay.

Peter O'Toole (00:33:49):
To not skiing. You sent me a picture of me. I,

Andrea Holme (00:33:53):
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And I grew up skiing, so, you know, cross country was, I was on skis by the time I was like six, seven years old, which is a bit late in Norway, but, uh, yeah. Um, so I, I love cross country and downhill is so, so, you know, uh, it's always interesting to me that, uh, you know, I will always start in the bunny, uh, or the, the sort green slopes by the end of it, the season and back onto the blues. Um, but yeah, and I used to do a lot ice skating and horse riding as well. So, um, I guess now, I mean, it's, it's more sculpture, you know, pottery, uh, so a bit more sedate things. Yeah. I have, um, it's a, it's a strange story perhaps, but, um, when I was in Singapore, I was out dancing and I had rather high heels. Right. They were very high heels and, uh, of course it twisted and, uh, I had a very nice tear in my knee, so that required crutches, et cetera, but, you know, it's, it's okay. But, um, uh, it means that I no longer can go running, which was what I really enjoyed. So, um, yeah. So

Peter O'Toole (00:35:07):
Surely, that was long enough ago now to get back running,

Andrea Holme (00:35:11):
You would think so. Yeah. Yeah. I dunno, the, the guys here, they, we have a bone research group here with physiotherapist. Every time I walk past them, they go, you know, I really want to look at your knee.

Peter O'Toole (00:35:23):
You should let them

Andrea Holme (00:35:28):
I'll end up with a bionic Knee.

Peter O'Toole (00:35:31):
Definitely let them have a go too. I presume on all your travels, you've done a lot of sight seeing as well. So again, you sent some pictures now, obviously this isn't really sight seeing, cause this is from your university.

Andrea Holme (00:35:45):
Yeah, yeah. This is down at the Harbor. Exactly. So, uh, and you know, the Highlands are beautiful. So in summers now here, so that's gonna be fantastic to go walking in the Highlands, you know, so now that we're allowed to go out, et cetera, ,

Peter O'Toole (00:35:59):
Aberdeen's a beautiful city, isn't it?

Andrea Holme (00:36:02):
Yes. When it's sunny. Yeah. It's really beautiful when it rains, it's a little bit gray, um, which can be okay, but not for the whole year. Right. So beautiful.

Peter O'Toole (00:36:13):
Some of the, if you get down to the Harbor and some of the big infrastructure vessels that are, there are just, oh yeah. Inspiring. They're huge. They're

Andrea Holme (00:36:21):
Huge. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:36:22):
Quite something.

Andrea Holme (00:36:23):
Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I mean, we have the wind farms, right. You're driving along the coast and you can see the wind farms and it is quite spectacular to see it. And you know, the, the coastline is beautiful. So, uh, I think that's a nice thing about Aberdeen. It is small enough to walk across, um, and it still has a little bit of a, a town city vibe to it. You can, and you can get it down to Edinburgh and then easy eat, very easy to get out into countryside. So you have a little bit of everything really. Yeah. And then you have the, the ocean

Peter O'Toole (00:36:57):
And, and I've, I've gotta mention just thinking about Aberdeen working in Aberdeen. Of course. Kevin MacKenzie recently retired.

Andrea Holme (00:37:02):
Yes, exactly. I can't

Peter O'Toole (00:37:05):
Without Kevin.

Andrea Holme (00:37:08):
I know it it's so yeah, exactly. It's so hard. And, um, you know, I, I feel like I missed my coffee person. , you know, we, we catch up over coffee and, um, he's, he's still around. So that's, you know, it's good. He, he drops in into the Institute a little bit and, uh, yeah, but I can't believe it. I think it was what, 40 years or six. Yeah. Something like that

Peter O'Toole (00:37:30):
Standard. Wasn't he there?

Andrea Holme (00:37:32):
Yeah. A long

Peter O'Toole (00:37:32):
Time, but again, a very different career track again for Kevin as well, different terms came in really from the ground up.

Andrea Holme (00:37:39):
Exactly. And, and really learned on the, on the job, which I think sometimes is the best way to do it. Right. Uh, and you know, has a lot of knowledge, you, we, we had such fantastic conversations about things. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:37:53):
But almost impossible to do what Kevin did in today's world. I would say.

Andrea Holme (00:37:58):
Yeah, I was. I think so. Yeah. Which I think is, is, is wrong. If I could be that strong about the point, uh, because you know, some people a don't want to go to university, right. It's not quite their, their cup of tea sitting at lecture theater and listen to people. And, um, other people at the time also may not know what they want to do when they're sixteens a very young age to make people make a choice.

Peter O'Toole (00:38:25):
I think that's where the, uh, we're always quite conscious to put all equivalent experience down. So actually though we usually look for a PhD or equivalent experience for most roles, but you can get that experience, but again, people have managed to get it. I'm not sure how easy that is in today's world.

Andrea Holme (00:38:45):
Exactly.

Peter O'Toole (00:38:46):
But to that, to Aberdeen, you then to, so the view looks very nice. You've got water. You then went to Perth and you've got water.

Andrea Holme (00:38:57):
You can see the trend. Right. I grew up next to water

Peter O'Toole (00:39:02):
They even had, well, the beach.

Andrea Holme (00:39:04):
Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:39:05):
And a campus beach.

Andrea Holme (00:39:08):
Oh yes, exactly. I'm I, you know, per University of Western Australia has got a beautiful campus. Um, so obviously hospital is a little bit further away, but the main campus is down next to water and people would go down and sit there and have lunch. Right. You could go paddle boarding, sailing. It's yeah. It's beautiful.

Peter O'Toole (00:39:28):
And I, I get all these pictures have water. You then got San Diego

Andrea Holme (00:39:32):
Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:39:34):
Then

Andrea Holme (00:39:35):
Both some water. Huh?

Peter O'Toole (00:39:38):
So the water. Yep. And obviously Singapore was, you can't see it very well, but it's in the water in the island.

Andrea Holme (00:39:44):
It's a small island, 45 minutes to drive across. Right.

Peter O'Toole (00:39:48):
Did you ever go, ever go anywhere? Oh, of course. If it's skiing, you go inland. Otherwise the sea

Andrea Holme (00:39:54):
Sea. Yeah, I think so. It it's, it's probably because I grew up in Norway and I had, you know, we were living, uh, next to the water. Right. So it's, it is a good orientation. If I know where the ocean is, I feel happy. Uh, when I was in Alberta, in Edmonton, it's a big flat plane and I felt a little bit like I was in a Tom Hanks movie, you know, the Castaway, I think it was or something. Yeah. um, and, uh, no, that was basically, I mean, there was many things and, and there lovely people in Alberta, but, uh, it's a bit too cold, but I did feel that it was, you know, we were in the, the big, a big plane. Um, yeah. So it's really interesting with the water. I've learned that about myself. I need a body of water

Peter O'Toole (00:40:41):
And you send me to this, so this, the next place you haven't worked out, I don't think, uh, which is down on the south coast

Andrea Holme (00:40:48):
Exactly.

Peter O'Toole (00:40:49):
At east coast of Australia.

Andrea Holme (00:40:51):
Australia. Yeah, exactly. So that was the 12 apostles. So I have some really good friends in Melbourne. We've known each other for, since I was a postdoc and Exeter. And, um, yeah, so her husband has his commercial pilot's license, although he's a solicitor, he's, he's an interesting character. So he is done many different degrees and, you know, um, sort of settles and being a solicitor, but we took a plane out, a small plane and we flew across the 12 apostles. Yeah. So it's, it was spectacular to see it, you know,

Peter O'Toole (00:41:23):
I, I, I, I bizarrely. So we got family down in mm-hmm moon and Melbourne and Sidney, and Brisbane now as well. My,Emma's is lived over there and the family over there, actually, we were great ocean road. Hmm. And it just was, this was not holiday season. We were young, child free. We were down there out of term time. So it was really quiet. And we went down to a small beach, no one on it. We went into one of the caves, no one, as we're coming out there was a couple of people walking into the cave and it was one of my best friends from university Allen Jensen. Also just outta, just all the place in the world you're bumping to someone. I hadn't seen him for years before. And I haven't seen him since vaguely in touch, but that's about it.

Andrea Holme (00:42:12):
you'll need to go back

Peter O'Toole (00:42:15):
Way. He's not even that far. He's actually, so I'd have to head up in your ways up in, uh,

Andrea Holme (00:42:22):
Well, you have to, you have to come up and visit one day. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:42:25):
Well, it's been a while since I've up there and obviously it'd be good to see Debbie as well. And the she's doing with the microscopy side.

Andrea Holme (00:42:31):
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:42:33):
So some more quick fire questions. Mm-hmm Pete or Mac

Andrea Holme (00:42:37):
Mac.

Peter O'Toole (00:42:39):
Oh, McDonald's or burger king

Andrea Holme (00:42:44):
Burger king.

Peter O'Toole (00:42:44):
Really?

Andrea Holme (00:42:46):
Yeah. Dunno what it is.

Peter O'Toole (00:42:49):
Oh, okay. I think I know these already. Tear coffee.

Andrea Holme (00:42:54):
Oh, coffee. Yeah. Definitely

Peter O'Toole (00:42:56):
Beer or wine.

Andrea Holme (00:42:57):
Oh, probably beer.

Peter O'Toole (00:43:05):
Okay.

Andrea Holme (00:43:05):
Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:43:07):
Light or dark.

Andrea Holme (00:43:10):
Probably more light. Used to be dark now. More light. Yeah. Okay.

Peter O'Toole (00:43:14):
Chocolate or cheese?

Andrea Holme (00:43:16):
Cheese.

Peter O'Toole (00:43:16):
Ooh. So sweet or savory

Andrea Holme (00:43:18):
Hard, hard choice there, but , I'll go sweet. you,

Peter O'Toole (00:43:28):
You went cheese over chocolate. Wow. Okay. Early bird or Night Owl.

Andrea Holme (00:43:34):
Oh, definitely night owl. Oh yeah. Yeah. I could be up until two, three o'clock in the Mor. Yeah, that's fine. But getting up,

Peter O'Toole (00:43:41):
I think I might have just cracked your problem. No, you are up to two or three o'clock in the morning. And in the morning you say you need three cups of coffee to get you going, not bed early enough, you know, and then you, on the coke day Coca-Cola was just tuned in, I don't mean Andrea's on the co day. I mean, she sound so wrong.

Andrea Holme (00:44:02):
Oh, it could couldn't it

Peter O'Toole (00:44:03):
They've now got you a crack snorting, Aberdeen, Scotland, UK hating person. You're gonna be actually a job within days of this coming out.

Andrea Holme (00:44:15):
Definitely.

Peter O'Toole (00:44:21):
So just going back a little bit when you were young. Yeah. Okay. So when you were a child yeah. What did you want to be?

Andrea Holme (00:44:36):
Riding instructor? I loved horses that I still do. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:44:40):
So do you see ride?

Andrea Holme (00:44:42):
I did. Yeah. I rode up until I had to go to university, I say had to, but I wanted to, you know, but yeah. Yeah. So I rode up until I was about 18 here.

Peter O'Toole (00:44:51):
Yep. You went for your horse. Okay. So, so then you went to university when you started university, what did you want to be?

Andrea Holme (00:45:00):
Ah, okay. I, I thought scientist, you know, I wanted to do research. I wasn't sure. So there's probably a couple things. Um, when I was, went into high school, so I was at a British school and I was 15 in Norwich. So it was an international British school and then changed during Norwegian school. Um, and did my, um, Norwegian exams. Right. For, for basically university entry. Uh, but during the high school, I had a really good biology teacher. I think it's probably what happens to everybody when they're in, in high school. Right. You get someone who kind of gives you a, a bit of a nudge and a direction, but I was, I mean, biology itself, wasn't very exciting to me. Right. I thought mathematics, uh, and chemistry was cool. Physics was a bit touch and go, languages I wasn't good at. Um, but you know, we, we started to look at, um, DNA isolation, you know, so we did some, uh, DNA electro phrases, and we've started talking about photosynthesis and a little bit lipid metabolism and cell signaling. I was fascinated. So I was really the first time I thought, how does it work? Right. I'm not so interested about plant species. I, it wasn't me at the time. It was more interesting now, as I've got older, um, how does a cell actually work? Right? What is the communication pathways? And I went to my teacher, my biology teacher, and I said, how does this work? Explain it to me. And I got library books out, right. To try to understand this. And he said, if you wanna know more, you have to go to university and you have to study this. And I said, right, that's me. I want to understand this. I wanna know more. This is, this is my thing that stayed with me. I still go sales lane. It's awesome.

Peter O'Toole (00:46:52):
So I'll go back. And when I ask about, who's been inspirational in your career, who's inspired you there. There's a very much a case, isn't it?

(00:47:00):
I say. Yeah. I guess that's, that's very true, actually. Yeah,

Andrea Holme (00:47:02):
Yeah. Right, right back. You don't always think right back at that start, but yeah. That is

Peter O'Toole (00:47:07):
That, that, that, yeah, exactly. That would be the person who, who kind yeah. Inspired me. Yeah. Yeah. So

(00:47:13):
They're, they're responsible for you.

Andrea Holme (00:47:16):
They are for better or for worse.

Peter O'Toole (00:47:17):
Okay. So now you are where you are. Yeah. What do you really want to be? What do you want to do now? If you could do anything?

Andrea Holme (00:47:31):
Very good question. It's one. I don't know yet.

Peter O'Toole (00:47:36):
I was just trying to get you into more trouble. Cause you're gonna say something completely different to what you're doing. And then you say, I'd rather be in Finland. I want and

Andrea Holme (00:47:44):
Breed horses.

Peter O'Toole (00:47:47):
You can, you can use the cell sort to do that as well.

Andrea Holme (00:47:53):
That's true. You can do an X and a Y you know, sales. Yeah, exactly. Now off you go.

Peter O'Toole (00:47:59):
How legal that is at the moment. That's,

Andrea Holme (00:48:02):
There's some patent stuff going on there.

Peter O'Toole (00:48:06):
So, so in the future, do you have any, if you could have any job in the world, what job would it be?

Andrea Holme (00:48:15):
Um, okay. So what if I had any job in the world, what it would be would be to really, I would say, build a, build new technologies, Flow, new Flows, new combining technologies. I like the sort of hybrids ability to bring things in and have omix to it. Um, you know, I don't, we, I spent quite a bit of time in cytometry now and I don't really want to deviate and I wanna know I want the next thing. Right. Um, so that's on a perhaps personal career track. Um, but yeah, you know, if the world was, you know, I'd love to go to Mars right. things like that. Yeah. There's

Peter O'Toole (00:49:02):
Space travel that, that works.

Andrea Holme (00:49:04):
That works. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:49:06):
Interested slightly. Yeah. It's interested when you're saying about the technologies and hybridizing them and seeing where they go is that, are you seeing a big change in that area at the moment? So the, the, the drive to integrate hybridize or bring together different technology platforms.

Andrea Holme (00:49:21):
I am, I, I think I am, you know, we can see that with the imaging cytometry and the flow cytometry combining, you know, um, and if you, I think speaking to people who, you know, knew people like Louis Kaminski and other people who developed all these flow cytometer all the time, that's what their goal was. Right. To have something fast, could be quantitative, uh, could do imaging. And we're now getting to that point that we could possibly do that. And then mass spec with the site off stuff. Right. So

Peter O'Toole (00:49:55):
Yeah, mass spec imaging more generally as well.

Andrea Holme (00:49:59):
Exactly.

Peter O'Toole (00:50:03):
It's interesting. But you you'd find the mass spec imaging for the more generic metabol lipic type stuff in a mass spec core. You'd see, as you said, the C top, uh, one Garry Nolans who podcast get, you'd see that yeah. In a flow optometry core more often mm-hmm , uh, then you've got your high Plex genotyping type instruments, your acote, your, uh, nano strings, your 10x systems. And they, so they're, they're in two different course, cuz they're quite often in the microscopy or the genomics core.

Andrea Holme (00:50:39):
Exactly. How do you separate and how do you bring together, right.

Peter O'Toole (00:50:43):
Yeah. Not how that, how, I guess maybe it's the interaction between core facilities, but up at Aberdeen at the moment, how are you dealing with that diversity? And yet very closeness is all these independent genomics microscopy. Cytometry, mass spec, these in digital platforms that are now got gray areas between them

Andrea Holme (00:51:07):
Like this it's like a bend diagram, right? It's yeah. Yeah. So I think Aberdeen is, is, uh, you know, we, everybody talks to each other, it's quite a small university. It's new, it's not Harvard or anything. Like that's not huge, but that, that can also be a benefit because you do have that cross pollination of both staff between cores, um, who, who for lack of better word youngsters learning. Right. So they're very, they go and do different things, different cores. But, um, it also means that the, even the, the, the core leads speak to each other. Right. Even if it's informally. Um, so I think it's something that's still in development in Aberdeen. Um, it's uh, but it's, I think, cause we're so collegial to each other, we know our project's coming in. We can say, actually, you're better off going to microscopy, this is not a really a good flow project or you're going struggle. You answer lies with this platform platform or technology or mass spec. Right. Um, and we'll call up the, the, the cores and say, I'm sending someone to you. Right. Um, and you know, it's, it's the same as data analysis, right? Genomics has unique, um, ways of analyzing data and, and visualizing it, which flow, uh, or imaging can sort of piggyback on, but I might look at a plugin or a piece of code and go, I have no idea what that means. Right. And I'll ask the guys in genomics, can you explain this to me? what do I do? Right. Yeah. So, um, it's kind of is I think growing from an organic or root ground roots level, rather than top down approach. But I would say if I could say Australia with Western Australia, and I think also like Monash, where they put their platforms under technology platforms, uh, and in Australia we had the center for characterization of microscopy analysis. Uh, so we could put a lot of different platforms under the one umbrella. And I think to make that sort of center or platform hub means you don't become too siloed. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:53:22):
So I say, as small as Aberdeen is, I'll give you a plug as well because you know, equipment wise, you're actually quite well equipped. So for a research environment, it's very rich. Uh, and I think the size is part of its beauty. I think very attractive place now sent me this picture and you, you're gonna have to tell me what I'm looking at here.

Andrea Holme (00:53:44):
Ah, okay. So , so this is, we were at lifesync, uh, CYTO yeah. CYTO like, yeah. And of course Attila he, he organized a lot there as well. So, you know, it was, it was a great, uh, uh, conference, I think, but that was Ed Luther. So, you know, Ed and, and, um, he comes from the, the generation with Howard Shapira and everybody and growing up with them. Right. And Paul Robinson and, and Kevin. And, um, I knew Ed since we had, when we bought the compi site, um, laser scanning cytometer. So I'd known him for many years and we were just sitting outside having a beer. It was great and catching up. Yeah. But, uh, I think these guys know more than we'll ever know. when it comes

Peter O'Toole (00:54:34):
And from recollection light sheet the dinner was down in the, the cabins, wasn't it?

Andrea Holme (00:54:39):
It was, yeah. Was that not where FAUS was? Or am I not remembering correctly?

Peter O'Toole (00:54:46):
It was a fun night down in the, it was a lovely and actually the food was, was quite good down there. Oh,

Andrea Holme (00:54:53):
Wasn't it? Yes.

Peter O'Toole (00:54:54):
So what's your favorite dye? You can only ask a flow cytometry. This really? What is your favorite dye color probe.

Andrea Holme (00:55:06):
That's a horrible question. There's so many of them,

Peter O'Toole (00:55:09):
I so many, you must have a favorite. You must have one that you just are an affinity for. Not necessarily the best, just a favorite. Oh,

Andrea Holme (00:55:17):
I never thought of that. I can tell you. I don't like Fitzy that I can tell you. Yeah. Uh, PE is always one. That's gonna be stable. Right. And it's a good old one. It's always inside. It always, always there

Peter O'Toole (00:55:29):
Makes you green. Yeah.

Andrea Holme (00:55:31):
Makes you red

Peter O'Toole (00:55:33):
Warm oven glow. Yeah,

Andrea Holme (00:55:36):
Exactly but no, actually I think if I, you know, if anybody said, what do you really want to have in your box? Um, you know, if there's only one to choose, always be a functional dye. And I think I'm gonna go to TM Marie, cause I can do two different experiments then. Right. So yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:55:55):
Good answer. I like that. And I'm gonna ask what societies are you a member of?

Andrea Holme (00:56:03):
Oh goodness. Okay. Well definitely I'm a member of ISAC, so, you know, that's definitely there and uh, yeah. Um, and then I am a member of, uh, well Flow UK Flow, UK RMS. Right. So, yeah. Um, and then it's, is it ABRF as well? So, um,

Peter O'Toole (00:56:31):
You see CTLS as well. You see CTLS as well, aren't

Andrea Holme (00:56:33):
You CTLS as well. Yep, exactly.

Peter O'Toole (00:56:35):
From the RMS. That definitely.

Andrea Holme (00:56:38):
Yep. Definitely good. Yeah. Yeah. And then British society of Immunology definitely is one. Um, I think I have to renew talking about membership. I think I have to remove renew cell death.

Peter O'Toole (00:56:54):
That's a huge number of societies. Why is it so important to be a member of all those different societies? Why, why, why don't you just choose one and that that's where you opinion your badge to, why is it important to have to be an active part and a member of those different societies?

Andrea Holme (00:57:11):
I find engagement, networking to be involved in the wider scientific community and not to be narrowminded is what I'm gonna say. to be, yeah. I might be a bit blunt, but yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:57:25):
But they do, they all address slightly different things and they're different communities. Yeah. Uh, as you say, CTLS CTLS ABRF are very much general core management more anything else. Uh, ISAC, Flow UK very much flow cytometry, Royal microscopical society microscopy, including flow more generally and obviously do a lot for the community as well around that area. Uh oh, you mentioned PSI.

Andrea Holme (00:58:01):
Yes. PSI. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:58:02):
That importantly for the immunology side.

Andrea Holme (00:58:04):
Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (00:58:05):
There's a lot aren't there. So I've got some more quick fire questions before we get to the end book or TV.

Andrea Holme (00:58:13):
Uh, I can have two answers book for really real, real relaxing TV for background noise.

Peter O'Toole (00:58:23):
Okay. And TV. Do you have any TV vices, any trashy TV programs that you watch?

Andrea Holme (00:58:29):
Oh, um, I, I do tend to watch a lot of crime drama. Yeah. So, you know, things like that. Yeah. And people will not like this, but I don't like Eastenders

Peter O'Toole (00:58:47):
I, I didn't even realize people still watch Eastenders.

Andrea Holme (00:58:49):
Right, right. Yes. Good.

Peter O'Toole (00:58:52):
Yeah. I think there's a co point where actually soap opera's has just become too time demanding, uh, for, to, to keep up with, so what is your favorite genre? Uh, genre of book?

Andrea Holme (00:59:01):
Um, I would say, well, definitely the crime drama has been sort of the trend in, in for many years, especially the Nordic Scandi thing. Yeah. Uh, but I do like a book that can make me laugh. Yeah. So a lot of people will, you know, read, I have who read a lot of autobiographies and I just think, well, I do a lot of reading, you know, during the daytime. I just want to relax.

Peter O'Toole (00:59:28):
Yes. Fair enough. Um, what's your favorite film? Favorite movie?

Andrea Holme (00:59:34):
Oh, very good question. Favorite movie? Um, it, it changes, uh, I will say that, but okay. I will say that I'm really looking forward to the top gear number two coming out. Cause top gear. Yeah. Top

Peter O'Toole (00:59:54):
Gun number two.

Andrea Holme (00:59:55):
Yes. Yes.

Peter O'Toole (00:59:57):
I made that mistake famously

Andrea Holme (00:59:59):
I just bought a car. So I've been watching a lot of stuff. yeah. Top gun.

Peter O'Toole (01:00:05):
Wow. So you'll have to go back, watch the original first and just recap and

Andrea Holme (01:00:10):
Exactly.

Peter O'Toole (01:00:11):
And what music do you like?

Andrea Holme (01:00:14):
Oh, so I, I listen to everything, which is not very helpful as you can see, I'm a very wishy washy person and I keeps changing yeah.

Peter O'Toole (01:00:24):
What pop classical

Andrea Holme (01:00:28):
Everything. I don't like rap. I will say that. So, you know, rap is not for me, but everything else is pretty much. Okay. Yeah. There's, I'm sure there's people, days people walk up, you know, past my, my office and they're listening to, why am I listening to Ozzie? You know, singing Ozzie Osbourne stuff.

Peter O'Toole (01:00:46):
That's OK. So you said you had your TV on, at home as background. Yeah. Here, your office. And you just have music on as background just to sort of as just noise.

Andrea Holme (01:00:56):
Yeah. It basically is. Yeah. And it's really interesting because it's almost like, you know, you are doing a bit of work. It keeps it amusing, et cetera. You know, the paperwork, it gets a bit, sometimes a bit dry, but if you're really analyzing something and you get into that sort of laser focus, then it has to be quiet preferably to be more quiet. Yeah.

Peter O'Toole (01:01:18):
Actually I just don't hear anything at that point. So it's distraction Andrea we are up to the hour. Excellent. Thank you very for joining me entertaining that's for sure. I don't, I've met anyone. Who's worked in quite so many countries and this will be fascinating in other five, 10 years time. See how many other countries you've gone through at that point, Latin America, uh, China, uh, we'll see where it goes, but thank you for joining me today, everyone. Who's what listened or watched Flow Stars. Please do. Watch the others go back to subscribe. You've heard of some of this Paul Robinson. You've heard, uh, talk about Garry Nolan pretty quick. You've heard those technologies go back and look some for Andrea. I cannot wait to meet up in person very soon. Thank you very much.

Andrea Holme (01:02:02):
Very much, Peter. It was lovely.