Joanne Lannigan & Ray Lannigan
Welcome to Flow Stars, candid conversations between doctor Peter OToole and the big hitters of flow cytometry. Brought to you by Beckman Coulter at Bite Size Bio.
Peter O'toole:Today on Flow Stars, I'm joined by the one and only Joe and Ray Lannigan, and they share how Joe's dream of becoming a doctor is cut short by educational priorities of the sixties and seventies.
Joanne Lannigan:I wanted to be a doctor from a very young age. It didn't happen, mainly because back then, the male siblings got the priority in terms of financial spending on education.
Peter O'toole:Then came a career risk and a period of real uncertainty.
Ray Lannigan:During that time, there was also some some litigation with that company in Maryland, and it was I was I was really I had never been so scared of my future, what it was how it was gonna turn out. We we had two cars at the time. We said, alright. Let's sell a car. We've gotta you know, we've really gotta just, you know, live within our means here.
Peter O'toole:And when success did come, it didn't come with an off switch.
Ray Lannigan:I think we're on a cruise in the Mediterranean, and I was still working, I had to go to a board meeting. And it was California time, and we're nine hours ahead. And so it was gonna be in the afternoon California time. So I remember waking up at 02:00 in the morning, kinda going down to the library onboard the ship with my computer, a quiet spot, and trying to do this Zoom meeting with the board.
Peter O'toole:All this coming up on today's episode of the Flow Stars. Hi. Welcome to Flow Stars. I'm Peter O'Toole from the University of York. And today, I'm joined by Joe and Ray Lannigan, two legends of Flow Cytometry World.
Peter O'toole:Joe, Ray, how are you both? We're great.
Joanne Lannigan:Thanks,
Ray Lannigan:Lee. Doing really well. Thanks thanks for the invitation.
Peter O'toole:I reason for inviting you, I a, because you're megastars in Flow Cytometry. Everyone knows you. Now have you ever have you ever thought about that that kind of everyone knows you?
Joanne Lannigan:It's kinda scary, actually. Can't get away with much.
Peter O'toole:But but my memory, I I I've met you multiple times at Saito and stuff. And without knowing you to start with is your friendliness. And then, you know, you were just really welcoming. You know, when I was a rookie in flow cytometry and stuff, you were just always open. You know?
Joanne Lannigan:Well, that's the the way I was treated in the community when I was new, and it's kind of you know, that's the nature of this community, and I think it just gets passed forward. I hope it continues to get passed forward.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. That was my experience too is that everybody was pretty welcoming and friendly and really open and and sharing their knowledge. I I always I always really appreciated that.
Peter O'toole:Yeah. How it's changed now? No. I'm joking. It's inter actually, it's interesting.
Peter O'toole:I a slightly cheeky question, although it will say on your LinkedIn profile. How many years have you both been in flow cytometry?
Joanne Lannigan:Oh my god. This is embarrassing. 1982 for me, so I don't even know how many years that is. It's a lot.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. That's 40 44. Oh. Yeah. And and I've been in since '94.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. '93. Yeah. So I guess that's, thirty three years.
Peter O'toole:So so since you were babies in flow cytometry. Yeah. So he here's interest. You've seen so you've pretty much seen flow cytometry since its inception and becoming it wasn't even back in '82, it was not mainstream at all. It was super niche.
Peter O'toole:Even in the early nineties, it was not mainstream. It was still, you know, getting more common, but certainly not in every university, more hospitals with some basic assays. How how have you felt about the just how it's growing? Did you perceive that it would actually become this big monster of a technology?
Joanne Lannigan:I kind of felt it would because, it allowed us to do things back then that, I I I mean, the alternatives were just so laborious and and difficult to do. So with a tool like that, it's only inevitable that, you know, more people are gonna take advantage of it. And, of course, it's grown. And then I think the other big side of it is the reagents that that accompanied it. Also made a lot of things possible that flow cytometry would have died if they weren't there.
Joanne Lannigan:I always was very grateful for molecular probes coming up with other than antibody type assays for us to expand what we can do in flow cytometry. But, no, I'm not surprised, and I think it's not going away either. I think a lot of people thought it was gonna go away when CyTO came. Oh, nobody's gonna do flow cytometry fluorescence flow cytometry anymore, but that didn't happen. So it continued to grow and expand.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. On the hardware side of things, it was interesting. I when I first went to work for BD in '93, the fax scan was was starting, to to get a real foothold, and that could do three three fluorescent detectors plus two scatters. And I remember they they were selling for in a 100 over a $100,000, I I think. And it's been interesting to watch the the technology scale up like like most other technologies.
Ray Lannigan:Right? It scales up, and yet the cost come down. You know? So that's that's been been interesting to see.
Joanne Lannigan:And I think that contributed to its expansion and availability. Right? It made the market available to others who maybe couldn't have afforded it, you know, forty years ago.
Ray Lannigan:And and its popularity, I mean, brought other players in. Right? Created competition in the market that also made it more available, more affordable, for for more people too.
Peter O'toole:Yeah. I I think we've just seen the next wave of batches of companies coming in. You know, we we had, obviously, the BD Kultur in the early days with the with the big ones. And we had a few other players come in on the periphery and then start to butt in. I think Spectrum has changed the scene a lot because that really makes I think that's opened people up to the eye the possibility of someone other than Coulter or BD.
Joanne Lannigan:Right.
Peter O'toole:Yeah. And then that's once that door's open, lots of other players are now coming to the market. Can you imagine the conferences years ago, the exhibitions, just how many companies selling instruments are now there? I you must you must have seen that. Great.
Peter O'toole:I love seeing that.
Ray Lannigan:Oh, yeah.
Joanne Lannigan:Well and too, though, you continue to see the small ones come onto the scene, and then before you know, they get bought up by the bigger ones. And so you constantly see this expansion, contraction, expansion, contraction. But there's always room for new ideas and new companies and new approaches, which I think there's some very creative people out there taking very creative approaches and solving problems that the existing technology hasn't solved yet.
Peter O'toole:Yeah. Now I'm thinking about new ideas. That's not
Ray Lannigan:a good thing to go through.
Peter O'toole:Also, just while staying on the sort of the legacy of being being in there for forty four years, when you go to the conferences, you know, it was a it was a close knit community to start with because it was a small group, everyone helping each other, as you said, really friendly. How have you found it now that we've got two, three different generations of cytometrists probably expanding with the evolution of the instruments. If you think about it, it was a hardcore, then you had the sorters and a few more recruits, then you had more colors, then you got the spectral. And the user base, the the people interested in the technology has grown with the diversity of instruments, I think.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. I agree. I think, what's nice, though, is even though you have this multigenerational, set of users, I think we we can all relate to each other when we go to an ISAC conference and are there on the on the, the vendor floor at at a happy hour talking to each other over a glass of wine or a beer. Right? I think that's that's one of the places, in my experience where we all come together, you know, and and it's, it's always interesting to hear the stories of I remember when I was younger, to hear the stories of Howard Shapiro or or Carl Stewart, you know, to to have them talk about the way they actually, you know, had these problems to solve, and they would build their own flow cytometers to, to solve these problems.
Ray Lannigan:And so I, you know, I hope it continues, along along that that line where, you know, there are multi generations of users that can come together and help each other out over a over a beer.
Peter O'toole:I I think go on, Jane.
Ray Lannigan:Go
Joanne Lannigan:on. I know. Was gonna say I remember being, you know, a young first time attendee at ISAC and not knowing anybody and just so amazed at at how welcoming and sharing people were. And so I kind of keep that in my mind as, you know, young people come up to me and say, can I ask you a question? Or, you know, I'd really like to hear your opinion on this or that.
Joanne Lannigan:And, you know, when you're at a conference, you you you have things you wanna see and talks you wanna hear and vendors you wanna visit. But to me, that is key is to stop and take the time and and talk to other people, especially the younger scientists because, you know, I remember being that person. So
Peter O'toole:I I'm just thinking when you when you go to Isaac, which is the big for those who aren't aware, it's a big conference, so CyTO for flow cytometry internationally. When I think about it, if I just now go back into any of the evenings and look around the room, it is multigenerational conversations. It isn't clicks of youngsters or, you know, I'll be talking to you too, and here I am still in my early twenties as I have been for the last thirty odd years. Still chatting away to yourselves and Paul Robinson and Mario. Obviously, yeah, I've been in my early twenties for thirty years now.
Peter O'toole:Anyway
Joanne Lannigan:That's true.
Peter O'toole:I think it's a it is a really good community for that side.
Ray Lannigan:It is. Absolutely.
Peter O'toole:So how did you get into play side? Oh, no. I'm not gonna ask how you got into play side. I'm gonna take you further back in time. When you were eight, nine, 10 years of age, what what was the first career that you thought you might like to do as a really young child?
Peter O'toole:I'll go with Jo first on that one.
Joanne Lannigan:I wanted to be a doctor from a very young age, But, it didn't happen mainly because, back then, the male, siblings got the priority in terms of, financial spending on education. You know, we're talking back in, you know, the sixties and seventies. Right? So, and so my brother was, interested in chemistry, and he did become a chemist. And I decided to go, a cheaper path.
Joanne Lannigan:And I went in initially went into medical technology, which to me was close enough. And having worked in that field, I found that, physicians often relied largely on the findings of medical technologists in clinical clinical labs. And so I felt like I was contributing to medicine in that regard.
Peter O'toole:I I will just before Ray comes in, I will just say my one of my favorite sayings is a doctor is great, but a doctor can only look at what you've diagnosed for them and prescribe what you've invented for them.
Joanne Lannigan:That's right.
Peter O'toole:They're just the middle person in all this. Actually, they need us for the diagnostics and to develop the latest diagnostics, and they need the scientists to then develop the next medicines, which is all coming back to flow cytometry.
Joanne Lannigan:And I and I don't regret that that choice anyway. I I think it was perfect for me.
Peter O'toole:Yeah. That's because we're more important. Ray.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. So when I was young, I always liked to build things. Like, I remember having, small scale models of cars or or buildings, and and this was really before Legos. And so I would build these models, and so I was really into building things. And then I think it was for Christmas.
Ray Lannigan:My uncle, got me this, it was from a company called RadioShack. I don't know if you guys had those in The UK.
Peter O'toole:We know RadioShack.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. Yeah. So from RadioShack, it was this thing called 150 electronic projects in one kit. I remember getting that, and I was just so fascinated with what you could build. They had the components kinda laid out on a board and what you could build with those things.
Ray Lannigan:And so I knew I wanted to go into some form of engineering. Electronics kinda, you know, got my, got my interest early on. And then when I was going through high school, I was taking a a college career track with with science and math. And then I came up to against the real the reality of it all and the affordability and being able to go. My parents they're and they're still with me, and they're wonderful people.
Ray Lannigan:I'm very lucky to have still have both of them, and they were great parents. But financially, things were things were tight. And so at the time, it seemed like going into the military was a good way to get a technical education and and and and still get a career afterwards. And so that's what I did. So I went into the navy.
Ray Lannigan:I went in through their electronics program, which was about two years of school, and then I went into work within the fleet. I worked on ships. I I worked on surface search radar and communication equipment. And then I I my last job in the navy, I was in a mobile technical unit, which is kinda like being a field service engineer. We would go from I was stationed in Newport, Rhode Island, and we would go to different ships.
Ray Lannigan:Sometimes we'd we'd fly out to the ships if they had a problem to help them fix a problem. And so that was that was my my introduction to being a field service engineer. And and so when I got out of the navy in '93, I found the job at Becton Dickinson and then came into the the flow cytometry world. Right.
Peter O'toole:So so I'm gonna ask, how did you two meet?
Joanne Lannigan:He was my field service engineer. He took care of my equipment,
Ray Lannigan:as we say. I serviced our equipment, I guess, pretty well.
Peter O'toole:We might have to bleed that bit out. I don't know.
Joanne Lannigan:Yeah. That's our that's the big standing joke amongst all of our colleagues. Beedi wasn't too happy about it, I don't think. But
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. It's funny. Early in our early in our relationship, we were yeah. It kinda came up against some resistance on different fronts. But but, yeah, I was the BD service engineer, and Joanne was in charge of the clinical lab at SUNY Stony Brook.
Ray Lannigan:And I remember going into to service her fax scan, and she handful now. And she would walk in the lab wearing wearing these dresses, and her legs were just amazing. Amazing. And I I was like, I was kinda smitten. So yeah.
Ray Lannigan:So we got to know each other better, which was
Joanne Lannigan:I kept trying to fix him up with some other girls and thinking, you know, he was recently single. And I'm like, oh, let me try and fix him up with all these young girls. You know?
Ray Lannigan:It took me a little while to get the courage to be direct, I guess. So it's I my intentions might have been might have been hidden a bit. But yeah. So
Joanne Lannigan:There is an age difference between us in case you can't tell. So I I never imagined in a million years this young boy was gonna be interested in me. So How old
Peter O'toole:were you both at that point?
Joanne Lannigan:I was almost 40, and you were 28.
Peter O'toole:28. Yeah. That's
Joanne Lannigan:It's a difference. So that's why I figured out he must be looking for some young girl. Right?
Peter O'toole:So so I'm interested. Ray, you just said why you fell for Joe.
Joanne Lannigan:Joe, what was it about Ray that was that you liked? Well, besides him being very charming and handsome, he could fix anything. And it still remains that way. I mean, there isn't anything in our house that when it's broken, I don't have the total confidence that I just need to call Ray and he'll fix it. But no.
Joanne Lannigan:I mean, it I don't know. He was kind. He was funny. He made me laugh. I think we just kinda hit it off more as friends initially.
Joanne Lannigan:Yep. And, you know, we'd go out and have a drink together. It just I don't know. Just it was comfortable.
Peter O'toole:Yeah. So so I wanna go go back to Ray because Joe just said you hit it off as friends to start with, but you said on your first meeting with Joe, you got the Kate's leg stuff.
Joanne Lannigan:So you The female perspective versus the male perspective.
Ray Lannigan:I said, maybe I hid my intentions a little too well, but but yeah. Yeah. It was I I was yeah. I was definitely attracted to her, but it was it was great having those conversations. We used to go to what was the name of that place?
Ray Lannigan:Hoole hands. We'd go there after work, and we'd sit and have a drink together and maybe have dinner together and and got to know each other. And, yeah, it was it was a lot of fun. It was, getting to know each other.
Peter O'toole:So you said you met resistance in some places. Where was the resistance, and how do you overcome that?
Ray Lannigan:Well so the first area of resistance was, my employer at the time. I mean, you know, you could see where you're working for a company and you're dating one of the customers. There's there's risk there. Right? If if the relationship doesn't work out, it it can create a a business conflict.
Ray Lannigan:Right? So I think there was some concern there. But I gotta say, ultimately, there were a few people that that had resistance, and I ended up talking it through. And, ultimately, everybody was like, look. That's your personal life.
Ray Lannigan:We're gonna stay out of your personal life, you know, which which I was glad for. And I think, you know, I think there were some people be mainly, I think big part of it because of our age difference, there were some there were some doubts about the longevity of our of our relationship.
Joanne Lannigan:Yeah. Friends and family. Just didn't really think we were gonna make it. Here we are thirty something years later.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. Yeah.
Peter O'toole:That's cool. Actually, I had a there's one on my team that dated an engineer as well. That not from the flow world. That didn't end so well.
Joanne Lannigan:Oh. We
Peter O'toole:then had a new engineer come to the site.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. This is the risk. Right? That that's what can happen. Yeah.
Peter O'toole:Yeah.
Ray Lannigan:So I I understood their point of view, but, ultimately, it's my it's my life, what I do after work.
Peter O'toole:As as my technician sort of came in, it it is. She's an adult. Yeah. Yeah. You know?
Peter O'toole:You know, humans are attracted to humans, and if that's, you know, worked well for quite a while. Service on our instruments was amazing for that program.
Ray Lannigan:Really high priority. Right?
Peter O'toole:Oh, yeah. Yeah. I didn't even know we called an engineer in some days, and there he was.
Joanne Lannigan:Did you notice there was, an increase in breakdowns during that time?
Peter O'toole:Only between them. That's really cool. So everything's gone. Well, you've been together thirty years. Children?
Joanne Lannigan:Not together. We each have children from previous marriages. So I have a daughter who's 46.
Peter O'toole:I think I have a picture. I'm just gonna pop a picture up. I think this is a the extended family picture. Is this right? Yeah.
Peter O'toole:Yeah. It goes. Out the way? Yep. Yeah.
Ray Lannigan:That's that's us last year in Puglia, Italy on our, family vacation. And so yeah. So Melissa is is three people from as you're viewing this, if you start at the right, she's the third person in.
Joanne Lannigan:And She's the oldest.
Ray Lannigan:She's the oldest, and she's, Joanne's daughter. And then, my my kids are Julian and Lauren. So Julian is the guy on the end with the beard on the right end. And then, yes, that's Julian. And then Lauren is way over on the other side, the last female online.
Ray Lannigan:Yes. Yep. There's Lauren. Yep. And, yeah.
Ray Lannigan:So those are those are our three kids, and the grandkids are in there. Let's see. Next to Melissa. To Melissa's, right are viewing our left is Katya. Katya is going to she's in college now.
Ray Lannigan:She's going to Virginia Tech. And next to Katya is her brother, Rocco, who is graduating high school this year and has been accepted at, the Savannah, College of Arts and Design. And, do you wanna introduce Layla and Zoe? Yeah.
Joanne Lannigan:So Lauren has two girls, Layla. She's right next to to, Lauren. She's gonna be 16 in about two weeks. And then the littlest one who's spoiled rotten is Zoe, and she's going to be 10.
Ray Lannigan:Should be 10 Yeah. In April. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ray Lannigan:So it's interesting. What you were talking about before about doctors and needing scientists to actually give them the tool the tools to take care of patients. Leila is in her in her high school since they're very close to a teaching medical school. They have a a medical program, so she's kinda pre med in high school. And, we keep talking to her about an MD PhD program, you know, to to also pick up the science side, which she's very interested in.
Ray Lannigan:I think she's I I think, you know, she's still pretty young, so I'm not sure she's a 100% sure about seeing patients. So, so, yeah, so so she has that that interest, which we'll
Joanne Lannigan:And I'm proud that she says her Mimi, who's me, influenced her her, love of science and medicine. So
Peter O'toole:So that's it's a good that's a good segue into it. Who have been your inspirations in your careers? So I think it's two things. It's inspirations and people who motivate you. And I think that's two different things.
Peter O'toole:So we'll start with who who who's been your inspirations over time?
Ray Lannigan:Do you want me to go first?
Joanne Lannigan:Yeah. Yeah.
Peter O'toole:I'll go right.
Joanne Lannigan:Sure about that.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. I mentioned him before, Howard Shapiro. Howard was he was a wonderful person, extremely funny, as as you as I'm sure you know. You've I'm sure you've met him And I was really impressed with his willingness to invite me into his lab to teach me about building flow cytometers. And a similar thing happened to me with Carlton Stewart back in, it was probably twenty six years ago now where when when he was at Roswell Park, he invited me up to his lab, and he actually showed me a cytometer that he was building with APDs, which is very interesting.
Joanne Lannigan:Carlton or how are you?
Ray Lannigan:Carlton. Carlton. This is Carlton Stewart now. Yeah. Yeah.
Ray Lannigan:But I I'd say that it was great to know them, but the most influential person in my career was was Eric Chase. Eric Eric was the the CEO of SciTech SciTech development, the old SciTech. Him and Harvey Schulte formed the company in 1990, and then I joined the company in 2002. It was I was the third full time employee there. And, Eric really showed me he was another amazing person.
Ray Lannigan:You know, he was a physicist, an incredible teacher. But he also showed me what it meant to be a good leader and to lead through kindness and to set a good example for everybody that was working with you. So he he was I was very fortunate to find him and to work for him and for him to be my mentor for so many years.
Peter O'toole:That's cool. And, Joe, your inspirations?
Joanne Lannigan:I think my inspiration was back very early on in my first job. I as I said, I worked in in, the clinical lab, but there was a research lab next to me then I found that I was a little bit more interested in the research part of it. And I met a woman who was a a researcher in the department, and I was always so fascinated by her, first of all, her intelligence, but how she managed her position amongst her colleagues. She was able as a woman to hold her own, have the respect of all her male colleagues. She eventually went on to be the dean of of the school and then eventually the provost of the university.
Joanne Lannigan:And she always taught me because I remember saying to her one time, well, I'm just the technologist or just a technologist. And she said to me, never say that. Never say the word just. You are just as important as every other person at this institution. It's a whole, institution that runs with many hubs and and wheels, and you're just part of that.
Joanne Lannigan:So just remember never to say. And that stuck with me, and it made me realize no matter what I was doing in the field that it was important somehow and somewhere. And so she was probably my my biggest inspiration. I've had lots of great bosses through my career, that always showed me, confidence in in me and gave me a lot of leeway in in being able to develop my career, on my own terms, which I always appreciated. So I've been very fortunate in that regard to have these kind of people in my life that, respected what it was that I wanted for a career and actually enabled me in many ways.
Peter O'toole:I'll come back to motivations because, actually, it seems, you you've gone through the careers to think and but now you're independent. Yes. Yeah? So you've kind of left the the the I I don't know. So you've gone private pretty much, haven't you?
Joanne Lannigan:Well own business.
Ray Lannigan:You've got your
Joanne Lannigan:own Technically, I'm I'm retired. I do have a consulting company, and I do do some consulting. But at this point, it's not a financial career in any way. Half the time, I don't charge people. I just help people.
Joanne Lannigan:But, yeah, I did
Ray Lannigan:last week.
Joanne Lannigan:I did go independent at one point while I was retired from University of Virginia, and Ray continued to work at SciTech. So I did go independent at that point. And, yeah, it's no different.
Peter O'toole:Was that a big challenge? Wait. But the the daily job must be different. The you you know, how you manage your time and everything else.
Ray Lannigan:It's, it's worse. It's you know what's funny is when when when I was working, it was like, I could get 20 things done, and it would take me all day. Now that I'm retired, I get three things done and it still takes me all day. So it's but I think one of the things I was I officially retired from SciTech in 2022, and and I stayed on, till the end of the year as a consultant with them. And then I did some consulting, and I really feared when I was leaving because I felt like I was at the top of my game.
Ray Lannigan:Things were going really well. I really feel like well, I feared that I've identified myself, my being as what I've done through my career. How am I gonna go on, and how am I gonna feel about myself? Am Am I I gonna gonna be bored? Am I gonna just sit around and watch TV or or take up a, you know, a a hobby or you know, I mean, I just didn't understand how I could fill my time.
Ray Lannigan:But I tell you, looking back now after after being four years, I I wish I would have done it sooner because it is just wonderful to have the time and the freedom to to just do what you want. You know? That in retrospect, I think, like, you know, when I was thinking back then, oh, what am I gonna do? But now I realize, well, I'll do whatever I want, you know, which is a really good sense of freedom.
Peter O'toole:But the consultancy doesn't sap up loads of time or do I It does. Put more effort in because you've got more time to do it, you're doing more.
Joanne Lannigan:Right. Well, when I was actively consulting, I I the hours for sure were twelve to fourteen hours a day. I definitely was working more. But still, you take on the the the projects that you want. And so you're still having know, wherein when you're earning your career, your job, you have to do the things you like and the things you don't like as well.
Joanne Lannigan:Right? When you're on your own, you can kinda especially in a consultancy, you can pick and choose, right, what you wanna do. Well, this this project doesn't interest me. I don't care how much they wanna pay me. I don't wanna do it.
Joanne Lannigan:And vice versa, this really interests me, but they don't have a lot of money, but that's okay. I I'm interested in helping them advance their ideas. So that's the to me, the benefit is that you get to choose, which things become your job.
Peter O'toole:Do you regret spending that amount of hours on it, though, at that point? If you look back, actually, I you know, were your priorities right? Do you regret it or actually think, no. That was that was right for the moment.
Joanne Lannigan:Well, it was what was right for the moment because at that time, Ray was, the v global VP for SciTech. So he was literally tied up more than twelve, fourteen hours a day. I would say it was closer to sixteen. I remember
Ray Lannigan:yeah. I remember taking Zoom meetings at the dinner table. Like, I had my phone there, and the phone was on. I would turn the video off because I people didn't wanna see me eating, but I had to listen and and and pay attention and jump in. And was at the beginning of the pandemic, like, in 2020, 2021, where since it was a global position, you know, I had to work in all all time zones, so it never seemed to stop.
Joanne Lannigan:And it was because of that I decided to take on jobs that took that long because he was busy anyway, so I might as well keep busy. So
Peter O'toole:Yeah. Yeah. I've just got this lovely image of you both eating dinner together, but you're the Zoom meeting. And then you're just listening in, and then they say something, and your eyes rolling at that point thinking, I'm now gonna have to stop eating and interject. And Joe just laughing at you.
Joanne Lannigan:You got that pretty well. You're me rolling my eyes going, oh my god.
Ray Lannigan:I I remember that when there was one time, we were on a cruise together, and you go out on these big cruise ships and you have Internet access. And I think we're on a cruise in the Mediterranean, and I was still working, and I had to go to a board meeting. And it was California time, and we're nine hours ahead. And so it was gonna be in the afternoon California time. So I remember waking up at 02:00 in the morning, kinda going down to the library onboard the ship with my computer, a quiet spot, and trying to do this Zoom meeting with the board and realizing that the ship had really poor Internet, bandwidth, which I was so thankful for because it was like, I can't hear you anymore.
Ray Lannigan:I guess I gotta go. And but, yeah, it was it was kinda craziness those last couple years in terms of schedule.
Peter O'toole:Looking back over your careers, what would you say was the best time of your careers?
Joanne Lannigan:When we got to travel together, which we did a lot. Yeah. Mainly because we went to the same conferences, not just Saito, but we went to a lot of regional meetings together because originally Ray was in sales. So, you know, he would get to go to all the night travel with him. And then, I did a lot of training around the world.
Joanne Lannigan:Yeah. That that that was, that was GLIFKA.
Peter O'toole:And if you who people who are listening, they sent Ray and Joe have sent some pictures that are very, very entertaining. After the conferences, things to dress up in, and they are dressed up in all sorts of things. So this was rare. Sorry.
Joanne Lannigan:There's one that's a we we were named the the Glifka had the flow prom, and we were named the king and queen of flow. And that picture is in there where Ray's in his tuxedo. I wish he, hadn't given that away. But
Ray Lannigan:Stop fitting. So
Peter O'toole:That is my goodness. Where my head is just there makes it look like, Ray, you're with me. So
Joanne Lannigan:I think that was in
Ray Lannigan:That was in Lyon. Lyon. That that was at a
Joanne Lannigan:Extracellular vesicle meeting.
Ray Lannigan:And, yeah, that was, what, 2022.
Peter O'toole:Yeah.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah.
Peter O'toole:I think some of the other pictures haven't turned out quite right. So, ah, there's another one.
Joanne Lannigan:That's when the Aurora, the first spectral that Cytec came out with was launched. That was a that
Ray Lannigan:was Isect. That was or Cyto twenty seventeen in in Boston, yeah, when when Cytec launched the Aurora. Yeah.
Peter O'toole:I have to be careful here because if I just put my head just there. It looks like At
Ray Lannigan:least you're at least you're still smiling. Right?
Peter O'toole:I'm gonna flick some other pictures.
Joanne Lannigan:That's another GLIIFCA meeting. That was these are other flow people. Jake Jacobberger. I don't know if you know who Jake Jacobberger. He's a longtime flow cytometrist that we've known for over thirty years.
Joanne Lannigan:There's Julie O'Geay, which you may know. Think Tom
Ray Lannigan:what's Tom's last name right there?
Joanne Lannigan:Grande? No. No. I don't know.
Ray Lannigan:Moe Moe Gorman's in the back there. This this picture was one of those scenes where, you know, the party ended at, like, midnight, and we didn't wanna stop partying. So we went back to somebody's hotel room. This is, like, two or three in the morning.
Peter O'toole:It was a
Joanne Lannigan:hotel room.
Ray Lannigan:Oh, was it Robert's home? Yeah. We're we're still we kept the party going. And the guy in the back there right over your left shoulder
Joanne Lannigan:Nobody knew who he was.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. He was like, didn't know who he was at the time, but he showed up, and we had a great time.
Peter O'toole:Yeah. Well, you two enjoying a party? Never. So he's actually not Turkey. I say Rafe, obviously.
Peter O'toole:Rafe.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. Yeah.
Joanne Lannigan:That's in Turkey.
Peter O'toole:Yep. So where's the best place? I can't show you the books. Was like, where's the best place you've been to?
Joanne Lannigan:Oh my god. So many great ones. I don't know. It's too hard to list. We loved New Zealand.
Joanne Lannigan:Love Singapore. We just got back from we finally ticked our seventh continent this January. We went to Antarctica, so that was pretty cool. But I don't know. Every place has its own unique beauty and ex cultural experiences.
Joanne Lannigan:And, you know, if I had my choice to live somewhere else, I would probably live in Italy.
Peter O'toole:Yeah. Grab that question.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. I I agree.
Joanne Lannigan:It's my heritage. I mean, both my parents are from Italy, and, I grew up in a very Italian household. But besides all of that, it's beautiful. The people are lovely. The food is fantastic.
Joanne Lannigan:The wine is great. So
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. Life there is pretty good.
Peter O'toole:I I am gonna go to one more picture, but I think be I I didn't get time to edit the picture, so I think you're both headless, Inrus. But I think it's quite pretty. Oh,
Ray Lannigan:yeah. Look at those legs.
Peter O'toole:Don't look at legs. I've shown it, mate. Is this picture unfortunately, hopefully, Connor, by those by, please, will put this picture right for the actual if you go into the YouTube, we are roughly thirty minutes into it. So just go and zoom into there, and then you can see Joe's legs. Well, not
Joanne Lannigan:like That was that was
Ray Lannigan:That was Las Vegas.
Joanne Lannigan:That was Las Vegas. Yeah.
Ray Lannigan:Probably, what, 02/2000? Yeah. 2000. Yeah. Yeah.
Ray Lannigan:Twenty six years ago. Yeah.
Joanne Lannigan:Much skinnier then. Both of us.
Peter O'toole:I I'm I'm not sure whether you were particularly large, are you? Okay. So they they were some of the best times, but we don't all you know, everything's nothing's plain sailing ever. So what would you say was the most challenging time in your careers?
Joanne Lannigan:Well, we both worked for a very small company in Annapolis, Maryland. One word of advice I could give people is never work for a friend. And so, he recruited both of us, and we both left very great jobs in New York and moved to Annapolis to work for his small company. And let's just say it didn't work out. And here we were in a position, gave up great jobs before.
Joanne Lannigan:Luckily, I was I got recruited to the University of Virginia through a colleague of mine who was there. And but this left Ray, like, what what am I gonna do? Right? Because we had to move from Annapolis to Charlottesville, which is probably, what, three hours away?
Ray Lannigan:Three hours. Yeah. By car.
Joanne Lannigan:By car. So there was no commuting going on there. And, luckily, during that stint with the small company, we were introduced to this other small company called SciTech Development. And
Peter O'toole:And the rest is history. Yeah.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah.
Joanne Lannigan:Right. And so Ray then took a a temporary job with them. He could tell you the funny stories about that, but we ended up we moved to Charlottesville, and it was a little tough financially at first.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. Bit scary. Yeah.
Joanne Lannigan:Yeah. It was a little scary, but we were pretty much living on just my income until he could get Cytec off the ground. You could tell him the story about how they gave you, what, four months to make so much money before they have to let them go.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. They gave me it was, yeah. They told me in signing on they were a small company with with very limited resource, and they said, look. We can afford to pay you for four months, and you have to start bringing revenue in. And and so, you know, I I learned their products, went on, tried to sell them, and support them.
Ray Lannigan:And then I, you know, realized, like, well, I I can fix BD flow cytometers. There's people that maybe want an alternative to to go into BD. Why don't we try this? You know? And at the time, Eric, Chase had a relationship with BD, and so he was very cautious about going and competing with them.
Ray Lannigan:And, but but we did, and, and then it then it took off. And so that but during that time, there was also some some litigation with that company in Maryland, and it was I was I was really I had never been so scared of my future, what it was how it's gonna turn out. We, we had two cars at the time. We said, alright. Let's sell a car.
Ray Lannigan:We've got to you know, we've really got to just, you know, live within our means here. And, yeah. But it it it ended up fortunately working out.
Peter O'toole:Right. I I presume you are the friendship didn't survive, I'm presuming, on that last bit. No. That's tough. It is.
Peter O'toole:It is. Yeah.
Joanne Lannigan:But, you know, they say you never mix money with friends and family. Right? It's those things you keep separate.
Peter O'toole:So Yeah. But the temptation's gonna be there because they're a friend. They got into aspirations. I'm sure Yeah. Their aspirations are coming in the right direction.
Ray Lannigan:And and when you're doing things with a friend, you tend to take people out their word, do things on a handshake, you know, and, we don't need lawyers involved. We don't need a formal agreement sort of thing, I think. So but but yeah. But, you know, ultimately, I don't know where where this person's at today, but hope hope he's doing well.
Joanne Lannigan:We always look at it as he actually did us a favor because Yeah.
Peter O'toole:Well yeah.
Joanne Lannigan:Look. My career at UVA was wonderful. I totally enjoyed my time there. And as we all know, the history of sci tech has been a very positive one.
Peter O'toole:That's cool. And that that was best times, most difficult times. We asked you know, you you both want to be an engineer and you wanted to be a doctor, and you kind of got into that world of influence. But if now, if you could do any job in the world for a day or a week just to see what it's like to do that type of job, what would you do? Rockstar.
Peter O'toole:What? So group you at the back, on the stage, or in the recording studio. You can't just say rockstar. You gotta give me what aspect of being a rockstar would like to. The interviews, the signing signatures, which bit of it would you really like?
Ray Lannigan:Lead man playing lead guitar, vocals, front man in an arena, rocking it out. If I could do anything,
Peter O'toole:that would be it.
Ray Lannigan:K.
Joanne Lannigan:I'd like to be an executive chef in a fantastic restaurant with with sous chefs, people who could prep. I do love to cook.
Ray Lannigan:You're an awesome cook too.
Peter O'toole:Yeah.
Joanne Lannigan:I always say Ray keeps me around because he's well fed.
Ray Lannigan:He said, I am I am well fed.
Peter O'toole:But he fixes the utensils, so it's fine. Perfect marriage at that point.
Ray Lannigan:I'm sous chef and and cleanup guy. So
Joanne Lannigan:You don't sous so often, though.
Ray Lannigan:I keep the knife sharp.
Joanne Lannigan:He does keep the knife sharp.
Peter O'toole:I love the way that you play second fiddle to the cooking. And yet, Joe, you had the perfect opportunity when he said you wanna be a rock star that your ambition would be to be the, groupie.
Ray Lannigan:Be the groupie. Yeah.
Peter O'toole:Switch it around.
Ray Lannigan:But it's
Joanne Lannigan:really does he does sing me love songs, I must say, which really warm my heart.
Peter O'toole:So hobbies wise then, I'm guessing, especially I before we actually started recording, you you lifted a guitar from the background. So I presume one of your hobbies is playing a guitar?
Ray Lannigan:It is. It is. If you wanna call it playing. Yeah. I I I make some sounds out of it.
Ray Lannigan:But, yeah, especially lately, I I've my first guitar I got when I, around my fortieth birthday. Joanne got it for me for Christmas. And I took some lessons, and, you know, for many years, it kinda set on its on its stand. And I I just I stopped taking lessons and didn't quite, you know, have a good practice, regimen. And but, I mean, now with these online tutorials that you can get subscriptions for, the material you know, and it's kinda like what I think a lot of people in our field are doing now on YouTube and and and site o u.
Ray Lannigan:You can really get a lot of good instructions online. So I found this site that really works for me, and it's you know, over I'd say over the last six months, it's it's gotten to gotten me to pick up the guitar more and play more, just make an effort to play more. I now play with my neighbor. He's he's a guitarist, so him and I get together every couple weeks and and and and we play. Yeah.
Ray Lannigan:So so there's that. And and I've gotten into cycling too. I really enjoy riding my bike. I like getting out and getting out on a nice day, and it's there's beautiful trails here. And to just get out on one of these trails, and it just I it's it's for me, it's zen like.
Ray Lannigan:I I it really really does do find peace in doing that.
Peter O'toole:What style of music?
Ray Lannigan:All of it. All of it. I like I like all of it. It's it's the it's it's it's the language of angels. Right?
Ray Lannigan:I mean, it's all good in its own way. But I'd say if I had to prefer, like, rock is is my favorite. And, you know, for playing guitar, I find, like, a lot of country type ballads. John Prine, Johnny Cash, those are those are pretty I I find, Neil Young, I I I enjoy
Joanne Lannigan:Brandi Carlisle.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. Brandi Carlisle. I enjoy, I enjoy playing playing their music too.
Peter O'toole:So I'm gonna ask Joe, how good a guitarist is he?
Joanne Lannigan:I think he's pretty good. He's come a long way from years ago, he'd get a a few chords down, and he would play those same few chords over and over and over and over and never get to the rest of the song. Now he'll go through a whole song, and not only does he play it, he will sing it. And I think he sings pretty well too.
Peter O'toole:No. We got a new we we got a I I did nearly suggest a call to the actually, for the one of their evenings, they should actually have a talent show and get people to come out idea. Regardless and actually play. I I think that would be super cool just to let people volunteer, say, okay. Do nominate in advance because there's a bit of logistics, but could be super cool to actually it'd be a great networking way to do it.
Peter O'toole:I'll I'll look. I'll talk to them. I'll I'll see where I
Joanne Lannigan:bet you there's a lot of talent there that Yeah. We just don't know about.
Ray Lannigan:We used to, yeah, we used to do this. Sells and I would would bring our guitars to Saito. And then
Joanne Lannigan:And Rui would sing.
Ray Lannigan:Rui would sing, Rui, Gardner. Alastair Stewart was he's great, when he was in flow and he would come. We we would sit around after the meeting at we at a hotel, we'd have beers at the table with a couple guitars and people would be singing. It was a lot of fun.
Peter O'toole:And, Joe, what do you do? What are your hobbies?
Joanne Lannigan:Well, since retiring, I finally started to read something that wasn't science. So I joined a book club, and I read a lot of books now, which I really enjoy. And I learned how to play mahjong, which which I'm absolutely hooked. So I belong to a mahjong club as well. I will bike with Ray when he lets me.
Joanne Lannigan:So he has to come down to I had to get an ebike to keep up with him. So but we do go on That's a good thing. Biking excursions together as well.
Ray Lannigan:She passes me on the hills. Like, she'll come up. She'll be behind me, and then we're on a hill, and I'm and then she just zooms right along, blows right past me.
Peter O'toole:So I'm I'm gonna give you because you've you've answered half my quickfire questions before we've even got there in just talking, but I'm still gonna ask them. So Joe first, early bird or night owl?
Joanne Lannigan:Oh, night owl.
Ray Lannigan:Ray? Night owl.
Peter O'toole:That's just as well, I think. Otherwise, you wouldn't see it.
Ray Lannigan:And I and I think I think this is one of the things that has kept us together. We're we we kinda have the same similar circadian rhythms. And I gotta say one of the other things I really enjoy in retirement is my morning routine. I'll usually get up thirty minutes before Joanne, and I'll go into the, I'll go into the kitchen, and I'll I'll make myself a cappuccino, read the read the New York Times. But one of my greatest things I enjoy is bringing her a cappuccino while she's still in bed, and I get a nice kiss for it.
Ray Lannigan:And, it's, yeah. It's well, it's one of our our, retirement rituals.
Peter O'toole:My wife never listens to these back, but I get up early. I'll make an espresso and read the news. So BBC News and The Times generally. But I'll make her a cup of tea, and I'll take a cup of tea up. But all I get is, put a lid on it.
Peter O'toole:Keep it warm. It's not quite the same. K. Next question. PC or Mac, Ray?
Peter O'toole:Mac.
Joanne Lannigan:I mean, I've always been a Mac, but I ended up with a PC because a lot of my clients were working with software that was PC based. But I'm about to replace my computer. I'm going back to a Mac. I would say I'm a Mac person.
Peter O'toole:McDonald's or Burger King? Joe.
Joanne Lannigan:Neither.
Peter O'toole:Ray. McDonald's.
Joanne Lannigan:Both. McDonald's? Don't touch the stuff.
Peter O'toole:Coffee or tea? Coffee. Coffee. Yeah. I I could see that was gonna be the case.
Peter O'toole:Yeah. Chocolate or cheese? Oh. Oh. Oh.
Peter O'toole:Look at contemplation.
Ray Lannigan:Wanna you wanna go first?
Joanne Lannigan:Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I love them both.
Peter O'toole:Visualize. There's a plate in front of you. There's a chunk of chocolate. There's a chunk of cheese. What are gonna go for?
Peter O'toole:You can only pick one.
Joanne Lannigan:Cheese.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. I'd say cheese too. And the stinkier the cheese, the better.
Peter O'toole:Oh, no. Okay. Beer or wine?
Joanne Lannigan:Wine.
Peter O'toole:And you're from the Italian?
Ray Lannigan:That's definitely situational.
Peter O'toole:Joe, red or white?
Joanne Lannigan:Mostly white, but I do enjoy a good red.
Peter O'toole:Okay. Ray?
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. I'd say I'd say wine and and definitely red. I'm not not a real big fan of most whites sometimes, but, really enjoy a a good red wine.
Peter O'toole:K. What is your favorite food if you were to go out and cook? What is your favorite food to
Joanne Lannigan:eat? Pasta.
Ray Lannigan:Pasta? Mm-mm. Yeah. My favorite food is Joanne's eggplant Parmesan, and she makes this dish. It's it's like heaven.
Ray Lannigan:And but it's one of the hardest dishes I think she has to make.
Joanne Lannigan:Most most It's not hard.
Ray Lannigan:It's not It's labor intensive. Right? So, yeah. But that is definitely my my favorite dish.
Peter O'toole:Okay. And what is your what is your food? What is the least favorite food? What food could be put in front of you and go, really, I don't wanna eat that? Imagine going on a conference.
Peter O'toole:You have no choice what you're eating yet. Put in front thinking, no. I'm gonna have to go and get a McDonald's. That bad joke. That bad, you'd have to go and get a McDonald's.
Joanne Lannigan:I can't see, I eat everything, unfortunately.
Ray Lannigan:For me, any any animal organ, Oh. I want nothing to do with, which is probably in McDonald's. But I I yeah. Animal organs, liver
Joanne Lannigan:Liver. Yeah.
Ray Lannigan:Kidney, any of that stuff. No. No. Thank you.
Joanne Lannigan:I would agree with that.
Peter O'toole:Yeah. I'm not
Joanne Lannigan:a big liver fan, especially after I learned about what a liver does. I
Peter O'toole:So so not kidneys, liver, it's awful, isn't it?
Ray Lannigan:It pretty much is. Brains. Although you like
Joanne Lannigan:tripe. I do like tripe. But it has to be made properly. I
Peter O'toole:I I was gonna ask if you prefer to cook or wash. We've already established that Joe is the cook of the house. So, Joe, what is your signature dish? Is it the eggplant, or actually do you have a signature dish that you most like cooking?
Joanne Lannigan:I mean, I think my Italian sauce is what my signature dish is, and I could put that on lots of different things, but, of course, in the eggplant as well.
Peter O'toole:Is that tomato based sauce? Yes. Yeah. Ray, do you cook at all, Ray?
Ray Lannigan:I do sometimes.
Joanne Lannigan:I He's a great griller.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. I'll go outside and I'll grill. But when I do cook, I I like to cook soups, actually. I I you know, to me, they're they're about my speed, they're hard to mess up, and I enjoy eating them. So I'll when I cook, I'm usually making some sort of stew or or soup of some kind.
Peter O'toole:So when you're cooking the stew or the soup, Joe, how often do you come in, taste it, and change what he's doing, or just add a bit of something else?
Joanne Lannigan:I never do that. Do I?
Ray Lannigan:No. Not really. You you don't don't butt in. I mean, I I may ask you for some advice. She butts in less now, which to me, I take as a sign as I'm getting better at it because
Joanne Lannigan:Well well, let's be fair here. Usually, he's following a New York Times recipe. Yeah. I have total confidence in New York Times recipes. So
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. New York Times cooking for me was liberating. I mean, it was like, okay. If if I if I have to cook, I can cook this way. I can follow some instructions.
Joanne Lannigan:But I think I may give him advice on how to cut something. You know? Like, if it says, he'll ask, what's the difference between dice and chop and, you know, slice and or how what's the best way to cut this vegetable?
Ray Lannigan:And she tells me those are all things you don't wanna do to your finger.
Peter O'toole:Okay, TV or book?
Joanne Lannigan:I like both. It's gotta be good TV, though. I don't like, like, regular, like, network type TV.
Ray Lannigan:There's a lot of crap on TV. I I
Peter O'toole:Do you have a TV vice? Do you have a a program actually you really shouldn't like but you do like?
Joanne Lannigan:Family Feud.
Ray Lannigan:Family Feud. This do you know Family Feud?
Peter O'toole:Yeah. I'll just go back. We don't like TV. We don't like you like Family Feud.
Joanne Lannigan:Yeah. Yes. That's our breakaway from the news. When the news we can't stand listening to the news anymore. They put on Family Feud, and it just kinda it's like
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. It's all kinda scripted, and it's it's all kind of
Joanne Lannigan:Silly.
Ray Lannigan:Silly, nice humor type things. You know? So it's yeah.
Peter O'toole:But you can chill out to it. And, Joe, you said you were now reading books. What are you reading now? What is your genre book?
Joanne Lannigan:So it's a book club, so everybody picks a book. But right now, I'm reading a book called The Measure, which is a very interesting book. The premise is that out of the clear blue sky, one day, every single person on Earth 22 years and older gets a box delivered to them, and inside the box is a string. And they eventually figure out that the length of the string correlates to the length of your life. And that's all I'm gonna say because I don't wanna ruin it for anybody who might wanna read it.
Joanne Lannigan:It's a fascinating book.
Peter O'toole:Right. You read. Think.
Ray Lannigan:Oh, yeah. Yeah. So yeah. It it's interesting. Since I didn't get a proper liberal arts education in in college, I didn't have a friend early on, and and he he was definitely an influence where he gave me this book.
Ray Lannigan:He was doing his PhD in modern art, and they were living him and his wife were living as tenants in our house at the time. And he gave me this book, and it basically said you can get a full liberal arts education if you read, like, the 100 classics. And so I started doing that many years ago. But I also found recently through read in The Economist. It's kinda like the 500 men, so I started reading them again.
Ray Lannigan:And so I finished recently Invisible Man, which is about it took place back in The US back in the fifties, and it has a lot to do with racism. I thought that book was excellent. One hundred years of solitude, I read recently, another great book. And I'm I'm rereading now Moby Dick with my brother who I'm trying to get into reading. So I thought, alright.
Ray Lannigan:Let's let's do read this one together, and and we can talk about it. You know? So yeah. But I I man, there's so many good books, and those classics are are amazing.
Peter O'toole:K. Favorite film?
Ray Lannigan:Favorite film. I I can I say favorite director?
Peter O'toole:Okay. Yeah.
Ray Lannigan:Guillermo del Toro.
Peter O'toole:Give me an example of his films.
Ray Lannigan:Frankenstein was his most recent one. Okay. Pan's Labyrinth. But yeah. Yeah.
Ray Lannigan:I I I like his films.
Peter O'toole:Okay. Joe?
Joanne Lannigan:That's a tough one for me. Which one did I watch many times? That was the Lady Gaga version one of it.
Ray Lannigan:Oh, A Star Is Born.
Joanne Lannigan:Star Is Born. I've seen every version from back to the the one in from the forties, I think, or fifties. And
Peter O'toole:do you have a favorite Christmas film? You got grandchildren now.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. Yeah.
Peter O'toole:But yeah. Favorite Christmas Christmas story.
Ray Lannigan:Christmas story. You shoot your
Peter O'toole:eye out with the BB gun. Yeah. That's classic. Okay. Radio or podcast?
Joanne Lannigan:Radio.
Ray Lannigan:Podcast.
Peter O'toole:Yeah. Ray, well done. You passed. Joke, cheers.
Ray Lannigan:I know how to read a room. I was in sales.
Peter O'toole:That was a trick question.
Joanne Lannigan:I knew that I knew the right answer was supposed to be Podcast, but I I decided I'd be honest.
Peter O'toole:Favorite color? Ray. Blue. Joe? Purple.
Peter O'toole:Oh, sake. Both of you. Not of all the people, I thought one of you might say Fitsy or GNP or something like that.
Ray Lannigan:I should have said 4488. Yeah.
Peter O'toole:Yes. I come on.
Joanne Lannigan:Those aren't colors per se. If you would have asked me my favorite fluorochrome, I would have said phycoerythrin.
Peter O'toole:PE. PE. A good stool water. Right back. Do you know what?
Peter O'toole:I I actually, I was in the lab earlier. I was looking through some of my my lecture notes when I was being lectured to as an undergraduate, and in there was PE, coumarin, flora c as examples of protein fluorochromes. That's that's for labeling. I thought, wow. That was crazy.
Peter O'toole:And one that doesn't exist anymore. No one buys it. I can't remember what it was called. And it was Joe who works for Ghost. What is that?
Joanne Lannigan:So I've
Peter O'toole:never heard of that before.
Ray Lannigan:Like, Aquadine orange or something like that.
Peter O'toole:Oh, no. We know that one well. The lab knows that one all too well. Cleaning that out your lines afterwards, that was always good fun with aquadine orange.
Joanne Lannigan:I I remember when phycorisartan or PE hit the market because when I first was in flow, we we had FTSE. That was it. And so it was one laser, one color. And I remember when PE came out, it was like, oh my gosh. We could do two colors at the same time.
Joanne Lannigan:Now they get to do 50.
Peter O'toole:We are up to the hour, but I've I've gotta just extend this just a few more minutes if that's okay.
Ray Lannigan:Sure. Absolutely.
Peter O'toole:Here's the bit we haven't really touched on is you're still active in the flow community. And, Ray, I know you well, you're both still involved with ISAC Yes. Ray, you're very involved with the instruments, for Africa.
Ray Lannigan:Instruments for science.
Peter O'toole:Yeah. Instruments for science. So I I know we've had Bill Talford as a previous guest talk about this, but tell me more about it and what's your next mission.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. So, Instruments for Science is one of, ISAC's civic missions along with live education and CITO youths. And so what we do I mean, if I was to kinda just sum up our mission in in just a quick layman's nutshell is, we don't want any flow cytometer to go into a dumpster. There there is a home for cytometers that are long no longer needed by some labs. So we find those labs that are willing to donate them.
Ray Lannigan:We we have some space in the DC Metro Area close to where both Bill and I live, in Bhutan, and we currently have a Kanto two that is in process to go to a lab in Cameroon. And our next adventure, personally, is to go to Africa. We're gonna be going to the Center for Infectious Disease Zambia, which is in Lusaka, Zambia, to finish an installation of a of a BD x 20. And then we're gonna also in South Africa, we're gonna be installing an LSR two in KwaZulu Natal University there. So so, yeah, this is getting back to the retirement and getting to do what you want.
Ray Lannigan:I you know, I'm I'd really enjoy doing this. It ends up being, you know, fair amount of work. The logistics are not simple, and, so it ends up being a fair amount of work. And, you know, if anybody's watching this, I'm gonna give a plug for donating and supporting Instruments for Science. You could go to ISAC's website and and find Instruments for Science and and donate there.
Ray Lannigan:But, yeah, it's, it's it's very enjoyable.
Joanne Lannigan:And I get to go along after these installations and do training with the live ed group. So, it works for both of us, and we really enjoy it. Working with people who don't have access to attend regional or national meetings is fantastic. They're so appreciative of anything you can give them.
Peter O'toole:And importantly, you manage to sustain these. So it's they don't go in, get put in, but if it breaks, you get to repair them. So so they're not just put in there as paperweight after twelve months.
Joanne Lannigan:Right.
Ray Lannigan:That's right.
Joanne Lannigan:Yeah. And they know how to use them properly, and they know how to maintain them as well. Right.
Peter O'toole:I think that's a really important part of this, because there's a lot of people who donate instruments, but forget the fact they've got to be maintained and that comes at a cost. And if they can't maintain it, you've just dumped all your waste in someone else's backyard. And it it can frustrate them, but this critically, your mission keeps them running, keeps them trained, keeps them supported. You know? That's it's got a life which I think is really inspirational.
Peter O'toole:So I think it's a really good course. So and that's on the ISAC website?
Ray Lannigan:Yes. You can find it through the civic missions area of the ISAC website, and there's a there should be a QR code on that web page. If you just Google instruments for science ISAC, I'm sure it'll take you right to that page. Absolutely. Yeah.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. It's and then you're you're absolutely right. And that's part of our criteria in in the application process is to make sure that, you know, we have a for supporting the instruments technically, we have a a remote way to do this initially. But when the remote support doesn't work, we wanna make sure that we can either go there or they have actual local support. So, so we we evaluate that, through the, through the application process.
Peter O'toole:We are I have we've gone over the hour. I apologize for everyone listening. I hope anyone who's watching or listening, I hope you've enjoyed today's Flow Stars. Please do. We've you've heard about Rui.
Peter O'toole:You've heard about Paul. You've heard about Bill. You've heard all about all sorts of previous guests. Go back. Listen.
Peter O'toole:But Jove, a, was it the king and queen of flow cytometry? Akifa, you were actually pronounced. I think you probably are the king and queen of flow cytometry. You've been hugely entertaining and hopefully inspiring for many other people. Thank you very much for joining us today.
Joanne Lannigan:Thanks. Thanks, Peter. Thank you for having us.
Ray Lannigan:Yeah. Thanks for having us, Peter. It's been a lot of fun. Thank you.
