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Speaker 1 (00:00:01):
Hi, I'm Pete to from university of York and today on the flow stars, I'm joined by Petti chat per fromt biomarkers before that, NYU, before that NIH. And I think we'll stop there cause we'll hear more about it as we go on. Beif how are you today? Good. How are you? Yeah, I'm great. Thank you. And just starting on that, that very long list from, from, I guess from a core site, a government scientist through to an academic, through to a and core director through to, I know we've got talent biomarkers, but is it just a one startup, two startups, three startups? Uh,

Speaker 2 (00:00:38):
I've got, I've got my hands in a few different things right now. So, um, it's been, it's been an interesting path and one, you know, that, that you might be curious about. So, um, so we could jump in on that, I guess. And I think start talking about that

Speaker 1 (00:00:51):
A little bit. Let's go back to where you started. Cause I think it'd be great, uh, for people to hear how you got to where you are. Sure. What challenges, what difficulties, but, uh, I, I shall warn you, we we'll jump about it quite a bit cause I'll also want to know what you do at home and, uh, absolutely what you do to relax, cuz that sounds pretty intense.

Speaker 2 (00:01:09):
Where is home? Um, you know, so lately, I mean starting a new business, you feel like you're always, uh, you're always working, but, um, but, uh, but yeah, I mean I was always from a young age, I was interested in, um, in science and uh, and you know, had thought that I was going to become a physician and uh, instead, uh, chose to marry one cuz I didn't, uh, I wasn't smart enough to, you know, to go to medical school. Um, but uh, but I went to the university of Virginia here in, um, in, in the us and um, and uh, and there, I got a kind, kind of broad education in, um, in the humanities and the sciences, which was, um, which was really, uh, fantastic and kind of shaped how I think about my career and you know, and how I've engaged and chosen pathways and you know, and I think without realizing it, I've always in a path where, um, I, I felt like I was, uh, getting to do what I wanted to do rather than what the, the system wanted me to do.

(00:02:14):
Um, or what was typical of the system. And, um, and I've just chased, uh, you know, being excited and being happy at work and, you know, and I think I found that early on at, at UVA when I was, um, getting my undergraduate degree and I was failing miserably in the pre-med classes and, um, and just was unhappy. And I just decided that I was going to, if I was gonna go to medical school, um, which was a big if I was gonna do it on my terms. And I started take taking in these little research experiences, um, in labs, around UVA, around medical school and, um, got addicted to, to lab work and just, you know, and just loved the, the independence and the, um, sort of creativity that was associated with that. I had great mentors who, you know, just kind of left me alone to, you know, to do my thing.

(00:03:04):
And, um, and didn't have me had me doing real work. They didn't have me, you know, washing beakers or anything like that. And that's something that still, you know, as I take on interns, I try to remember that I'm not bringing in people to label test tubes for me, I'm bringing in, be able to, to do science. And so, um, so anyway, so I finished up at UVA. I, um, uh, you know, decided that I wanted to go for a PhD and I wanted to stay, um, relatively close to home. I grew up in the Washington DC area. So I went to John's Hopkins and got my PhD in molecular microbiology and immunology there and focused in on HIV research. And this was a time when, um, HIV was, uh, was not something you've lived with for your whole life. It was a, essentially a death sentence you'd progressed to aids and, uh, and, and succumb.

(00:03:54):
This was the early 1990s and, or sorry, mid to late 1990s. And, uh, and I did a really interesting project where, um, we were trying to understand why, uh, why there was a specific change in the T-cell compartment, um, just before you developed aids. So aids was defined as CD four counts, less than 200, but about a year and a half for that, your total T-cell count your CD three T-cell count, which was maintained throughout the course of infection. Even in the drop on CD four counts, you'd have an increase in CD eight and you'd maintain total T-cell counts that suddenly collapsed that ability to maintain total T-cell counts would, uh, reliably collapse about a year and a half before the diagnosis aids. And so my, um, thesis work was centered around understanding what was driving that. And, um, we did, uh, some InVivo labeling, um, experiments with, with humans, with people, um, where we would give them deuterated glucose and look at the dividing T-cells, um, from different, uh, different T-cell compartments.

(00:05:01):
Um, and that work was a lot of fun other than the, you know, the typical excitement of the immunology and labeling and all that. I got to actually chase down HIV, positive people and, and recruit them for the study and consent them and write the protocols. And, you know, you actually chase after them running, come back, come back. You was a lot like that. So we had two, we had two cohorts at, um, at Hopkins that, that, um, that I, you know, I was involved in, one of them was the multicenter aids cohort study, which is a cohort of, um, homosexual men who had, who were just absolutely dedicated to, um, you know, to contributing to HIV research. And those were typically, you know, people who were well off and, you know, who you didn't really have to chase the, I guess the biggest, you know, sort of problem in working with them is that you became friends with them.

(00:05:55):
They wanted to like tell you about their life and they were, you know, and, um, and so you, you kind of got engaged and just became, you know, buddies with these people, right? You'd have these, this like month long experience with them and you'd come out of it, like, you know, with, you know, with the best friend you'd know about all of their, um, their wife and their history. And it taught me a great deal, you know, having and grown up in a sort of sheltered suburban community. Um, it taught me a great deal about, uh, you know, the, the struggles that, um, that, uh, that, you know, people who just are trying to be in love with whoever they want to love, you know, face. Right. And so, um, so it was, it was definitely formative in that regard for me. And then the other group that you really did have to chase was a cohort of IV drug users.

(00:06:42):
And, um, and these were, uh, people who were, you know, in it primarily for the I'm, I'm sure some of them were, um, certainly in it for the, the good of doing research, the, the philanthropy about it, but the, the, you know, the sort of real life, um, uh, situation of theirs dictated that they wanted money for blood draws. And, um, and you know, you can imagine that people in those situations have, um, uh, they're hard to find, you know, and so, um, I remember there was this one guy who, um, who was, he used to call me doctor Ts. I would, wasn't a doctor yet, but he called me Dr. S and, you know, he pluralized my name and nicest guy in the world, charming, charming guy. And, um, he called me after his infusion and said, you know, I, um, really am in a bind and I, I need to have an advance on the, the money that, you know, the money for the study.

(00:07:39):
And, um, and, you know, and I was young and stupid and not really street smart. And so I went to, um, somebody who was smarter than I was, was running the early HIV study. And, um, and she was like, no, no, you cannot do that. You can't just give them money from the study. You know, they have to complete the study, there's, you know, rules and regulations about the stuff. And so I went back to him. I said, no, you know, I'm sorry, we can't do it. And, um, you know, you got upset. And then the next call I get is, um, from, uh, the person who runs the clinic, who said that he was arrested that afternoon for stealing, um, something off somebody's lawn and trying to pawn it. And so, you know, I felt incredibly guilty that, you know, that right, that I, you know, he ended up in jail now, he's he had a long criminal history anyway.

(00:08:28):
So, you know, it's likely to, to be in trouble, um, again, but, um, but we actually had to draw him within 10 days of in his infusion. And so the atomist and I went to the Baltimore city jail and, um, she was, you know, we were both in our twenties, you know, she's a young, whatever 25 year old woman. And, you know, we're kind of walking in there together through the hallways of the jail. It was surreal. Um, and into the infirmary in the, in the Baltimore city jail to, to draw him and, um, you know, it was, uh, it was quite an experience. So I had a lot of really neat experiences like that, that, you know, were that, that shaped how I thought about people who lived under different circle instances than, than I did, you know, and, um, you know, I certainly learned a whole lot of immunology in my PhD, but you know, what stuck with me was, um, and HIV, of course, but what stuck with me was, um, learning about different types of people and, and, you know, the, the settings, how the settings that, that we live in and our circumstances that, that surround our upbringing and our, um, you know, our sort of young life really can impact and change.

(00:09:46):
Um, you know, how we view the world and how we interact with it and our perceived success in it, you know, so it was really, it was really quite formative.

Speaker 1 (00:09:54):
So I, I, I'm gonna come on something different in a moment, just a very quick question. When you were the age of 10 in that sort of age, what did you want to be at that age?

Speaker 2 (00:10:04):
I wanted to be an astronaut . Okay. Um, yeah, and it was, uh, it was because, um, I was, I was incredibly, uh, enamored with the Voyager, uh, mission, um, which was, you know, around, around that time. And, uh, well, it's, you know, obvious kind of still ongoing, but, you know, I was fascinated was fascinated by Voyager woman too. And so I wanted to be an astronaut, but, you know, there was no realistic way that an Indian kid from a, you know, suburb of, you know, Washington D seat was gonna end up being an astronaut. So

Speaker 1 (00:10:40):
That might no longer be the case. I would hope I would like to think.

Speaker 2 (00:10:43):
Yeah. Yeah. Although, you know, I didn't, I didn't have any of the other interests. I was just fascinated, I think, with the idea of exploration more than anything else, you know? Um, so I, I don't think I fit the mold at all for an astronaut, but so I think

Speaker 1 (00:10:55):
Is it, I think you've already at the age of 18, you wants to be a physician, but you then became a flow optometrist, which is, uh, I, I, I will come back to that as well. Uh, here you are today, what would you, if you could do any job in the world, what would you do today?

Speaker 2 (00:11:11):
I would either be a lawyer or a journalist, likely a journalist, um, which actually makes me incredibly proud cuz my daughter is an awesome writer and has, uh, she's 16 now. And she's started writing for the local, uh, the local magazine about, you know, her experiences as a young person and in high school and looking at colleges and stuff like that. And so she's a little Cub reporter and that's exactly what I would've killed to be. And I remember having a conversation with my parents when I was, um, you know, when I was in, in my senior year of college, fourth year of college. And, um, and I said to them, you know, I think I want to go to grad school in journalism. And they were like, what, you know, that's not something that, you know, Indian kids do. That's not a proper, um, you know, a proper, uh, career path. And, you know, it was all about being a scientist or an engineer or a doctor and, you know, and, and that was it. And that was the mindset back then. And I'm so glad that, you know, now we see so much representation, you know, in the media and, uh, and especially in the news media for, you know, people, um, people who, whose parents probably push them to be, uh, scientists and engineers and doctors.

Speaker 1 (00:12:25):
So I'm amazed. You you've just said what you'd like to be today. If you could do anything, you are two startup companies. I, I was kind of how that, and then I was gonna come onto what you'd like to be when you retire. And that would've been your answer, but no, you just, that's fascinating. So actually you're following something, I guess, where your talent is, where your skill sets are rather than if you could do anything in the world. So,

Speaker 2 (00:12:48):
You know, it's interesting, I've, I've thought about this a lot and, um, and what it boils down to is that I like stories. I like to tell a story and in science, especially what we're doing, you know, especially the kind of science that oftentimes, I guess we, as pH cytometrists are involved in, right. You run a core, it's a series of short stories in a lot of ways, you know, um, where you're engaged in a question, and then you, you know, you have an arc to solve that question, come up with an answer and, you know, and then you move on to the next thing. Right. And, um, and so there is that, that kind of motivation of, I want to tell a story and that's why I'm in it, um, is, is probably what's driving me now. Having said that, um, you know, I will kind of, I guess, freely admit and hopefully no future job people will, uh, you know, will be, uh, will be disappointed by this.

(00:13:48):
But, you know, I think I maybe lack, um, an interest in going too deeply into question, you know, like getting at the molecular mechanisms of a particular pathway, that's a cellular or biochemical pathway and spending my whole career investigating. That seems like the most boring thing I could ever choose to do. and, and so, you know, so it's almost like my whole career and that might have been why I, it was driven towards technology development because with technology development, what you're doing essentially is you, you have an idea and then you work through it and you, you have a solution to that idea, you apply it and then you kind of move on. And it was a frustration of mine at NIH that you, you know, that I developed these technologies and show the first application of it and then kind of move on from it. But in a lot of ways, that was what I was, that's who I was, you know, and I'd want to move to the next story to, to the next, um, to the next, uh, yeah, I guess the next story, you know,

Speaker 1 (00:14:55):
So to those innovations were things such as 18 color experiments. I think mm-hmm, quantum dots, flow cytometry, uh, the brilliant dyes flow cytometry, quite a lot of very at the start are things that now people use as commonplace. Yeah. That must been ex how, how exciting was it? You must have some confidence, this is gonna work. It's not like some hypothetical science, where will it work? Won't it work kind of, kind of know it's gonna work, but you've gotta make it

Speaker 2 (00:15:26):
Work. Yeah. So, you know, it's, um, it's, it's it interesting how a lot of that stuff came, came to be, you know, so, um, with the, with the brilliant violets, for example, um, you know, uh, uh, a friend of mine, a colleague at, by legend had been talking to, um, had been talking to the, uh, the folks who developed brilliant eyes and I legend was looking at them and, um, and was working closely with them. And, um, and, uh, and I think it was at an ISAC meeting where, um, you know, she was like, oh, I want to introduce you to, to Brent. And, you know, the Kelly Langston was the person. And she was like, yep. I wanna introduce you to, um, Brent Gaylor. And, um, you know, it was a really sort of stupidly simple conversation, you know, it was like, I'd love to test them out.

(00:16:17):
He's like, okay, we'd love to have you test them out. And, um, and he sent us a con and, um, at the time we were using, um, uh, what was it off of that channel was Pacific blue and cascade blue was the one before that. So cascade blue and Pacific blue, where the common dyes off of that channel. And they were typically, you know, they were well resolved, but they were pretty dim. Yeah. And so, um, so I did a simple titration and I was astounded at how bright they were and, you know, I was like, wow, this is an incredible dye. And I just went into Mario's office and, you know, I said, Hey, you know, I got this new dye material. And, um, and, uh, and this is what it looks like. And he was like, holy crap, that's pretty awesome. And so, you know, that got us started working with, um, with Brent a lot more.

(00:17:01):
And that was a, that was a wonderful relat cause he's an awesome guy, but, you know, as the brilliance, uh, developed and were purchased by BD, you know, that actually was the core and the basis for doing the 30 parameter flow work. Um, and so, you know, uh, it's, I guess how you get into it and, you know, a lot of times it's just, um, it's just networking and it's, you know, it's just having exposure to new things, being willing to try them and, you know, trusting that, that people have, people are bright and talented and have interesting ideas and, you know, and getting, getting on board to the right train. So,

Speaker 1 (00:17:42):
So I'm gonna a actually, what was, what was Mario like to work for or

Speaker 2 (00:17:47):
Work? Uh, awesome. Awesome. Yeah, he was he's um, so, so I, uh, you know, I, I can, I can tell a whole lot of stories, but Mario is, um, he's not a micromanager, which is just incredible and awesome. And, um, he's in, in an interesting, in a sort of understated way he's inspiring. Um, you know, he doesn't walk into the lab and rah RA and, you know, but, um, but it's by example, you know, and so, um, so I would, you know, I've always, I've always thought of myself, um, as someone who recognizes an and tries to emulate good leaders and, you know, and I can, I, and I'm good at choosing good leaders to, you know, sort of follow and, and emulate. And he was, so he is so awesome in that regard and, you know, and, um, I, I can't, I mean, I can't say enough good things about him, but, um, but part of the reason that, um, so much flows optometry has come out of that lab, um, is that, uh, is the Mario had the vision to, to build a group that was focused on the interface between technology development and you using that technology.

(00:19:11):
And, and I think more than anyone else, he has figured out how to, how to do the whole pipeline. And, and I, so look up to and respect that, that, you know, that there's technical development that happens in that lab, but there's also application and, you know, real contribution to, um, to virology and immunology and, and, and vaccine work that is, you know, is, uh, is fundamental too. And that's, that's something that is really, really hard to do, cuz so many of us are either, you know, technical developers or, um, or bio, I guess, you know, or, I mean, certainly we all consider ourselves biologists, but certainly we, you know, there's kind of two spectrums and he's really managed to, um, to bridge those part of the reason that he's managed to bridge. Those also is cuz of really great people in his lab. Um, you know, the, the post HOX that I worked with were awesome.

(00:20:11):
Um, and, uh, and they've, they've, you know, moved on to successful careers, um, in their own. Right. Um, and then Steve Perfetto has been running the, the flow core there and, you know, is, is Mario's, um, right hand. And, um, is just, you know, one of the sharpest people in terms of making this stuff work, you know, very practical way. And so, um, so we had, I always like to think that we had magic while I was there and Mario still has that magic. I, you know, it's not, but you know, I'm removed from it. And so, you know, I miss it a lot, but there was, there was a certain magic in that lab. Um, that was just awesome. Mm-hmm so

Speaker 1 (00:20:52):
I've gotta ask, it's bugging me now. Yeah. Are you in a lab or in a lounge? Cause I'm looking so if you, if you are listening to this, I'll just describe that we seem to have some sort of flow hood of instruments over on the left with a water chiller box while on your right. It seems to be, uh, pictures. There's a, there's a nice coat comfy chair in there. The, the door into the room looks more like a house door than the lab door. Where on earth are you

Speaker 2 (00:21:17):
so, um, so that's a great question. I'm I'm in a wonder, a fantastic Wonderland where lab and lounge meet. Um, no, so, uh, so I was, you know, I was, um, as we were developing technology in Mario's lab, I had always felt like I would love to have my own company that applies this technology and uses it for, um, you know, for correlative work, to, to discover biomarkers, to, um, to, to really apply it, um, systematically. And, um, and as I was leaving Mario's lab, I was daydreaming about that, um, in, in, uh, lots of different ways, but I decided that, you know, I hadn't had any real experience, um, uh, leading a group. Um, even though I, you know, I certainly, um, supervise some people in Mario, but it's different, you know, you've always got Mario, um, as a safety net, um, and a very effective safety net.

(00:22:16):
And so, um, so I felt like that was a limitation in my development and, um, and I didn't have the appetite for, for the risk of being an entrepreneur. And so, um, so I thought, well, you know, let me do what I really want to do, which is apply this technology and focus in on that and we'll figure out where to go from there. So I landed at NYU, um, at, at Lango and at the medical center and, um, and ran a, ran a program that was, uh, dedicated ostensibly to, to high parameter, um, work, not just with Flo cytometer, but also with, um, single cell sequencing and, um, and molecular cytometry, the abse the Sighte technologies that are, that are out there. And, um, and the core was ostensibly focused on that. But, um, but we also had at duties, um, around cell processing and Luminex and things that I was not interested in at all.

(00:23:16):
And, um, and so, you know, we, we turned quite a business in cell processing and Luminex and, and made it work for the institution, but the demands kept growing and growing and growing. And it was crowding out the, the time and resource horses to do high parameter, um, single cell work. And, um, and couldn't hire additional staff. There were all kinds of, you know, issues with my time there. Um, but in the process I started thinking, well, I'm going to prepare myself for, you know, becoming my own entrepreneur and, you know, and feeling strong about that. And I felt like I checked off the box about, you know, mentoring and leading people. I, I had one student go to U C S F for grad school. I had another student who started up a second startup that I'm involved in, that we spun out of NYU.

(00:24:06):
And, um, and, uh, and a couple of other employees who, you know, have, have done well and landed, landed in places that are good and right for them. And, you know, I felt I did right by them. Um, and then I recognized that I was doing sort of all of this service work for the institution and not for myself. And increasingly it became the service work, the demanding piece of the service work, the loudest piece was, um, uh, self cell processing and Luminex, especially. And I was like, you know, this is just not a use of my skillset, you know? And, um, so, uh, I decided to leave and, um, and pursue these kinds of different startup opportunities. I had three entities, two of which that I was leading and one that, um, that I was just, you know, sort of a consultant for and, um, and decided to you just drop out and, you know, do do those things, um, focus on those I, those two ideas and, and doing the consulting work.

(00:25:14):
And so, um, so one of the ideas was this company, talent biomarkers. Um, the reason that we're talent biomarkers is because I'm inspired by birds of prey and they're talents. And they're so precise in being able to pick at out, um, their prey from a sea of other things and do it rapidly and incredibly, um, forcefully. And I think with high parameter technology, that's exactly what we're doing, right. We are going into a sea of cell types and finding the cell type that matters in a particular disease condition or drug therapy and identifying it with an incredible precision. And so that's why it's called talent biomarkers. That's essentially what we're doing. We're, um, we're a, a contract research organization that, um, does this work it's, um, I, I wanted to reimagine to get to your question. I wanted to reimagine how we do science. Um, and in part, this was largely motivated by wanting to be close to my home, you know?

(00:26:14):
Um, so I live in this small town in New Jersey. That's beautiful, it's, um, sort of idyllic, it's like a new England village it's, um, you know, small and hilly, and it's a wonderful place to, to live, to raise kids. And, um, and, and being the outdoors is just spectacular here. Um, so I wanted to be close to home and, um, I thought about how I do science and how I've done science all my life. I've done it in big sterile buildings on campuses on sort of, you know, in environments that were, um, were, were not, uh, kind of community oriented. And so I, um, opened this place up in a former Pilate studio in the center of town. That's why there are all these mirrors around here. Um, and, uh, and I checked with the local, uh, the local zoning authorities, you know, could I do lab work here?

(00:27:08):
Uh, did my due diligence about, you know, um, you know, having a hood there's a hood and a back there. Um, and so essentially we're in a storefront in the center of town, um, and the, the sort of front half that's on my left side. Yep. You would say is, is the seating area where, you know, where, when we have clients visit or when we have, um, when I have people from the community visit, we hang out there and then the, the rest of the area, and there's a little bit more space in the back. There is, um, is all scientific. And, you know, we've got a PCR room, we've got a hood, we've got a freeze area. Um, and it's, um, and what's wonderful about it is that we're right here in the center of town taking up a storefront that was empty before, you know, so we're contributing to the community in that way, into the business community here.

(00:27:58):
Um, but we're also exposing the community to, to science and, and it's not happening in an industrial park. That's completely removed. I'm not, you know, the guy who's telling them whether the vaccine is gonna work or not, or lying to them about the vaccine. It suddenly becomes a lot more real what, you know, what science does and, you know, and their kids can, you know, walk by here when they're going to elementary school or the high school's, um, down the road. My daughter walks over to the lab, um, in the afternoon and hangs out with me, which is just, you know, precious time. And so it's this concept of, of bringing science into the community and, you know, something that hasn't existed probably since the 18 or 19 hundreds, but, uh, you know, uh, I, I really believe that we can start to make a difference by, um, in, in how people are perceiving science in local, um, in, in a broader community if we're in it. So,

Speaker 1 (00:28:58):
So if it's kind, so it's kind of a hybrid lounge lab. Yeah. How good is a sound system in there

Speaker 2 (00:29:06):
In terms of like music, you must have music in there. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, actually the sound, system's not great. I have to, I have to work on that a little bit. I've got these two cheap speakers from, uh, but you know, it's, we can, we can amp that up, but you know, we're on a startup budget here, so, you know, let's get a few more contracts and then somebody can fund a, a proper, uh, Sono orose speaker system here.

Speaker 1 (00:29:29):
what, what's your music, a choice?

Speaker 2 (00:29:32):
Uh, I listen to almost everything I'd say. Um, so in the car, I am stuck with what my wife and daughter will listen to, which is top 40. Um, so, uh, so I am, you know, I'm, I'm a huge BTS fan, oddly enough, um, because of them. So, you know, so Kpop is, uh, is fascinating to me, but, um, but no, you know, other than that, um, jazz blues, and I I'll even listen to classical music. I listen to almost every thing I used to play the violin when I was a kid and my parents were actually quite musical. They were, they sang Indian music. And so, um, so I have a really, um, you know, that was an important part of my growing up. And, um, because of that, I think I have a very eclectic taste.

Speaker 1 (00:30:16):
No, I, I don't think I've asked anyone what their dark secret is, but now you've just confessed your Kpop. I might bring that in. Yeah,

Speaker 2 (00:30:22):
Exactly. I mean, you know, one day I was, I, I post on Facebook that I was, I was in here, I was doing a, doing a titration and I was singing a Jonas brothers song and the, um, you know, with the, with the, uh, radio and, um, and the FedEx guy walks in. So, you know, that was, uh, that was a shame. I'm not a for him. Um, but, uh, but yeah, so, uh, it was, uh, you know, it was embarrassing, but you know,

Speaker 1 (00:30:50):
This is the big leap to, to leave the comfort of a, a regular salary, a safe, secure, good salary to jump out. I presum you're up venture capitalists.

Speaker 2 (00:31:03):
Uh, no, so, well sort of, so, you know, so how I, I started, this is kind of, um, interesting. There was there's one, um, contract with a, um, a pharmaceutical company that, that sort of buys up assets of, of other companies and then develops in themselves. It spins out, um, their own subsidiaries for them. And so, um, so we have this contract that, uh, basically is to do some work in autoimmune disease, and it's a huge project. Um, and what they've done is they've split that money into, um, $200,000 to, to prove that I can do this work, you know, um, on 10 healthy donors and to start up lab and then, um, a million dollar investment and then a million dollar contract. And so we have, um, so with that 200 K um, you know, I essentially started up this operation now, a cytometer and a rap city, you know, um, would've eaten up most of that.

(00:32:06):
So fortunately we've got some, um, really great relationships with, with both BD and Thermo, um, and have, um, you know, sort of collaborative relationships that are keeping me from paying less price for those things. Um, but, uh, but that's how I've started and you, I never would've imagined that activation energy is really high, you know, especially for someone like me, who's, uh, risk averse, you know, I, I never would've thought that I could have equipped a lab and, you know, and done the certification work with, with $200,000, but it's, um, you know, it's incredibly possible and, um, and sort of empowering to do it outside of a university situation, because suddenly you don't have to deal with, um, you know, legal looking at some document for two years, you know, um, you don't have to deal with purchasing, you know, you can buy stuff off of Amazon and eBay and, you know, and, um, and, and there's, there's something joyous about not having that oversight, which is just fantastic or bureaucracy, I guess, is

Speaker 1 (00:33:19):
So, so it's really SunCom or set up or sun it's really the foundation is that contract, uh, with, with the carrier to a bigger contract at the end of that. But exactly must be diverse by, sorry.

Speaker 2 (00:33:31):
Sorry, go. Yeah, sorry. And in the meantime, um, you know, without really even advertising or, you know, telling people I'm out there and have started the, this up, um, you know, through, through kind of my network of connections, I've got three or four more contracts. And so, you know, they're not of that size, but it's enough to, you know, it's enough almost that if that first contract didn't work out, I'm not gonna lose stop. I'll lose a little bit of sleep, but, you know, I'm not gonna lose too much sleep over it. So, you know, now having said that, I want that first contract to work out I'm dedicated. No, no, that's, that's, you know, right. But, you know, it's, um, it was surprising to me how much business could be had out there at the Spurling stage. And, um, and, and that the people who are, you know, those additional clients have the, that faith in me says something, um, about, honestly it does, it's probably it's underappreciated, but it says something about the training I received from, you know, growing up in science, right. That I know how to do this work well, and people have faith in me cuz I can communicate that. And that's thanks to my PhD advisor. That's largely thanks to Mario. So, um, you know, uh it's um, and, and to my experiences at NYU. So, um, so there's, there's a leap of faith that people are taking in me that I'm really grateful for. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:34:54):
And don't just put it all there, cuz actually you, you had to have developed those networks and those relay with the companies that are helping sponsor equipment in or at low cost or helping mm-hmm they at the same time have trust and you've know that, you know, if it blossoms, you'll be buying equipment and they'll, they'll get the money back and that that's good investment. So the pump priming you in that respect, you know, you are quite defensive about doesn't mean I don't want first contractor work and I'm sure the company, uh, that first company that, that gave you that seed cor funding to get going, uh, they will want you to diversify and be doing the work for the other companies. Cause it means if their, if their demand goes down, you'll be there when it picks back up

Speaker 2 (00:35:37):
Again. Yeah, exactly. And they, and they also, they're getting, you know, the interested it's, you know, I probably shouldn't talk about these things, but you know, in the interest of helping people who are, you know, getting started or thinking about these transitions, you know, they've also got an equity interest in the company when, and anytime anyone makes an investment in you they're, won't expect, you know, um, a return on that investment, a potential return on that investment with, with equity. And, um, and so, uh, so, you know, so there's certainly they have a motivation as well, too. You're absolutely right about that to, to see me do other things and, you know, and keep the business going.

Speaker 1 (00:36:12):
So currently, is it just yourself or

Speaker 2 (00:36:15):
Do you have, yeah, it's really just me. Um, so you know, well you 200,000

Speaker 1 (00:36:20):
And you can turn it around. You absolutely will grow

Speaker 2 (00:36:23):
From that. Yeah, exactly. And you know, that meant that for a project. So we just finished a project. We, I keep seeing we, but it's the Royal we it's just me. Um, you know, uh, we, yeah, exactly. So, um, so we just finished a where, um, where the client was, um, looking at a vaccine for brain cancer and they, um, needed some data for a, um, a presentation at, uh, at an international meeting, um, last week. And, um, and so we turned that project around very quickly, but what it meant for me was literally 18 hour days of, you know, pipetting, I'm doing everything right, doing, uh, preparing for the projects, um, doing the pipetting and then, um, you know, doing all the analysis work as well. And, um, and so it was really a one man show and it's been a while since I've done, you know, um, lab work like that as it's been a few years, but you know, you, you get back on the bicycle and, um, and I found I was, you know, effective and happy doing it now, is, is that a sustainable proposition?

(00:37:30):
No, I'm not gonna, you know, run this like a, um, like a one man, you know, um, a food cart somewhere, you know, um, it's, uh, I'm, I'm looking to hire and I'm looking for, um, you know, for really someone to be sort of a, my right hand here and, um, and you know, that'll, that'll come hopefully soon. Um, but until then, it's not, it's not terrible to, to do this. And, and, you know, we got that data out. It was really well received. The client was really happy. I was thrilled with it. Um, and, uh, you know, it was, um, it's just, it's, you know, you realize that you're on a journey. Right. And I was talking about stories and, and so, you know, this was a, a story that was the first story in, you know, our longer story and in the series basically. Right. And that first story, I really wanted to be a success and I really wanted to feel like it was my own and, you know, the most tangible way to feel that is to, you know, stimulate, do peptide stimulations and, you know, and, and, and put the, you know, put the tubes on the instrument yourself. And so, um,

Speaker 1 (00:38:42):
So yeah. What is your family make of this? It's a bit, again, it's a big move it's and the family is also it's part of a

Speaker 2 (00:38:48):
Collective. Um, I think, uh, so I, I have a, I have a, an incredibly to have a really supportive, um, spouse and she's, um, absolutely amazing about this, you know, um, she, when I was mulling, uh, you know, starting up my own company, I required a bunch of sort of metrics of, you know, learn this, make sure I have this in place, make sure I have of that in place. That's, that's who I am. And she, you know, sort of Harang me that, you know, you, um, you've been thinking about this enough, just do it, you know, just jump in there and just do it. And, um, so I, you know, I have to give her credit for, for, you know, pushing me out the, uh, it's only us like, you know, um, what is it, uh, parachuting, right? You need to, I needed somebody to push me out.

(00:39:41):
And so, um, so she pushed me outta the plane and, you know, and I'm, I, and I have to say to be realistic about this stuff, you know, um, we couldn't have done this 10 years ago. Um, you know, we didn't have a financial situation. She's, she's been success in her career and, you know, and that's helping, um, you know, uh, bake bread at home and keep, you know, that's help helping keep food on the table at home basically, you know? Um, and so we have, we have some great advantages that allow us at the stage of life to, you know, to kind of, um, allow me to chase this. And, and it's always worked that way in our, in our, uh, relationship. So I fully anticipate that, you know, um, 10 years down the line, she's gonna leave her, you know, job as CMO of you know, of a biotech company. And she's gonna, um, she's gonna wanna go off on her own, do her own thing, whether it's, you know, making soup or, you know, craft digging or something like that. And, you know, I'm gonna have to figure out a way to support that. So, and I will,

Speaker 1 (00:40:42):
Yeah. Take, take, moving off that a little bit. Who's been your inspiration inside work.

Speaker 2 (00:40:52):
Um, so I have, for, for the longest time, my two, uh, inspirations were, uh, were Mario and Gary Nolan. Um, because I thought that, um, they both are incredible at seeing the power of technology Gary in particular. Um, no, how to, um, then turn that into not just application but into business. And, um, and both of them have had amazing contributions to science. And so, you know, and, and they're in areas that are, um, you know, sort of familiar to me, right. That are, that are immediately adjacent or in, in my field. Um, so I would say that they are the, the two, two biggest inspirations to me, I think.

Speaker 1 (00:41:48):
Yeah. I, I, yeah, well, well, leading scientists are to actually, we've done one of these with, with Gary I've yet to get Mario to accept uh . I leave NHS for legal reasons before he would, uh, before he would do that, I think. Oh, really? Yeah. So why is it my face go so red when this comes on anyway, what about outside of work? Who inspires you outside of work?

Speaker 2 (00:42:13):
Um, I, I think by, you know, I, these are hard questions cuz you know, you sound, I don't know if you sound arrogant, making famous people your inspiration, but I, I guess that's how you get inspired. Right. Um, so, so I, I would say that Obama is one of my biggest inspirations and um, and you know, and you, you don't know what, you know, the real Barack Obama is, right. You know, you just, what you see, but you know, from what I see, I see someone who is a dedicated family, man, who's balanced his, um, relationship with his, with his daughters and is a dad to daughters, which I think just sort of the, one of the most, um, powerful things in society that you can be a good dad to a, to a daughter to inspire her, to become what she wants to become and tackle the world on her own terms.

(00:43:10):
And, um, and so that, that sort of dedication and devotion to, um, to family while still leading a highly successful and, and, you know, and sort of achievement oriented career is amazing to me. The other thing that, um, that inspires me about him is that, uh, he's a very measured person and, um, and you know, there, the, the, you know, there's so many attacks in, in politics and, you know, but it always felt to me like he was above those attacks and that, you know, that there wasn't there wasn't, there was a of modicum to how he responded to those things and restraint restraint is, you know, and there's incredible power and restraint. You know, if you can focus your mind to address what is the most important issue at hand in your life and ignore all the noise and all the barbs without, you know, getting into, um, getting into the toilet or getting into the gutter with people. Um, no matter how tempting it is that that strikes me as an amazing trait. And, um, and that that's of the things I admired the most about him.

Speaker 1 (00:44:34):
So you mentioned how he, you know, with his children and everything else, how do you balance your work life balancing and what, what hobbies do you do outside of work?

Speaker 2 (00:44:45):
So, um, so the work life balance is has always been, uh, an interesting challenge. Um, we, uh, you know, my, so my wife is a physician and, um, work life when she was, um, training, you know, through, uh, residency and fellowship was basically all about, you know, her being, the being present when she could for, for life, you know, for family and then me picking up the slack and, um, and that, that was kind of how, you know, how it worked. And, um, and because of that, I remind myself as painful as some of those times picking up the slack was. Um, and sometimes I was, was about it, honestly. Um, you know, but I've developed this incredible relationship with our daughter cuz of that. And, you know, and, um, and that's something that is, is lifelong that, you know, and I never, I never knew how important it was to me to be a father and how, you know, hopefully good at dad I've been.

(00:45:52):
And, you know, I, I, I never like, sort of could have conceived of that before, you know, it was never one of my goals, you know, it wasn't up there, astronaut dad, you, I could have cared less about that. So, you know, so having that as an important thing in, in my life is, um, is the, is the outcome of, you know, of the sacrifice that came from the work life balance. And so I always remind myself that there's a, there's a good outcome when it feels like that balance is, is skewed. The other thing that I remind myself about is that, um, you know, we made a lot of decisions about where we were gonna be based on her training early on. And then, um, you know, when it came to me moving to NYU, cuz of the, the great opportunity at NYU, um, there was no question or hesitation on her part and she was the biggest cheerleader for that.

(00:46:43):
And so that's, that's the balance, right? You know, you, you maybe, um, miss out on an opportunity earlier in your career, but you can take one later in your career rear. Um, and, uh, and she had a lot to lose by moving up here, but she, you know, she did and, um, and it turned out to be a success for her as well. And so, you know, so it kind of worked out. So, um, you know, and then the, the, the sort of, you know, mundane day to day activity of, of home, I mean, we still fight about the laundry and it's gonna go cook dinner and you know, that that's like that would've happened even if we didn't have, um, who cooks it's most well, who cooks well is her, um, who cooks poorly, but you know, gets something on the table as me.

(00:47:29):
So, um, that sounds like when it's cooked, where it takes a long time by the sounds of it. No, no, actually she's amazing. I mean, she comes from a family of people who cook incredibly. Um, I, my mom's an incredible cook, but I did not get any of those genes. And so, um, so, you know, right now we're going through this transition where she's taken on this position. Um, and, uh, and you know, it's a new job. She's, she's chief medical officer, so she's in charge of the, um, strategy there. And, um, and you know, it's, it's busy, so I'm having to take on some, you know, some of the cooking responsibilities and, you know, and the little laundry and stuff like that. It's a, it's a pain, but, um, you know, it is what it is. And then when I was busy pulling 18 hour days, thankfully she was, um, taking a little vacation between her job.

(00:48:17):
So it ended up working out well, um, you know, eventually it's gonna catch up to us, but we'll figure out a way we always have. So, so, so I'm gonna ask what's your signature dish? So, um, I don't really have a signature dish. Um, so one of the things that I do is I I'm so precise and elaborate, you know, it's like, I'm looking at pipette tips and I'm right. You know, this, this wheel, we all are like that, a scientist, I refuse to be precise in the kitchen. I absolutely refuse. I will not look at a recipe. I will not measure things. I will not. That's why I won't bake because it's a disaster if you baking. Right. And so I will basically, you know, everything is just an in the moment experience what we have, what, you know, what's in the house, what I feel like making what I feel like eating and to hell with everyone else.

(00:49:08):
And, um, and often as that means that I am improvising, you know, completely, uh, the other day I made a, um, kimchi stew, which was fantastic actually. But, um, uh, you know, I have to give myself credit for that. Just say yourself. Yeah. Yeah. It was really good. Um, but you know, I like, I like to cook Asian food for sure. Um, and, uh, ed, I will tell you a funny story about that. So one of the things I do is, you know, when it, when it turns out good, my wife will be like, oh, you know, this is, this is really good. You know, did you, uh, did you follow a recipe? And I used to say, no, of course not. Now I make up a story associated with it. Right. And so, you know, so I, uh, the other day I made, um, I, I essentially made like some beef stew with noodles and I called it, um, I called it Senegalese summer stew.

(00:50:03):
And, um, and she was like, oh, really? And so I went this long thing, I was like, yeah, you know, I read about it. It's, it's really interesting. And, and I have no experience with west African. I don't know anything about Senegal or anything like that. It's like, you know, in the summer they make this because the, the, the cattle typically are older. And so, you know, so the, the meat has a different kind of flavor to it and the texture. And so you can replicate that, you know? And so I went on and on, and inevitably, as I'm telling these, I will, I have a towel. I will smirk a little bit. And she's like, you're lying. You totally just threw things that have on. So, um, so she's on to me. So there's no Senegalese, some are stupid anymore.

Speaker 1 (00:50:45):
So vision, it's beautiful to start with, which explains why the food taste is so bad, but Hey, you gotta love it cuz of the story know

Speaker 2 (00:50:53):
Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, just because your taste buds don't understand it. Right. You know, it's, it's right. It's, it's a cultural, it's an acquired cultural taste

Speaker 1 (00:51:03):
And, and only the people in the back of your mind that you just made up fictionally would like mm-hmm

Speaker 2 (00:51:08):
exactly.

Speaker 1 (00:51:11):
Okay. So are you a tea or coffee person?

Speaker 2 (00:51:16):
Uh, really neither, honestly more diet Coke, but um, but coffee, more coffee person. Yeah. Chocolate

Speaker 1 (00:51:23):
Or cheese, sorry, chocolate or cheese.

Speaker 2 (00:51:27):
Oh, I don't, I don't know why people would choose between the two.

Speaker 1 (00:51:32):
No, definitely. There's a reason

Speaker 2 (00:51:35):
I totally just, again, this is an acquired cultural taste.

Speaker 1 (00:51:39):
Mac or PC,

Speaker 2 (00:51:41):
Uh, Mac. Yeah. I will, I will buy PCs occasionally by windows based computers. Occasionally I switch between Androids and iPhones for my phones, just so I feel like I can keep up. I'm desperately concerned that I'm gonna grow old and like need my daughter's help to do simple things on the computer. So

Speaker 1 (00:52:04):
Yeah. Welcome to our world early bird night out

Speaker 2 (00:52:07):
Night. Totally. And I know no tell can't stand in the morning

Speaker 1 (00:52:12):
TV or book

Speaker 2 (00:52:14):
TV and, and really, really bad TV

Speaker 1 (00:52:17):
TV. Well, see, that was my next question. Go. What is your TV vice?

Speaker 2 (00:52:20):
So, um, so it's the, uh, it's the legal shows like, um, so it more serious legal shows like, like, um, uh, you know, like the courtroom dramas type things, you know, so, so, um, so very interested in that, um, gotten really interested in true crime and I'm worried that if anyone looks at my browsing history and my wife has an accident, you know, I'm gonna be the first person they look at. Um, uh, but then beyond that, um, you know, so you guys are in the UK, I'm sure you have things like this, but, um, but you know, idiot, people will go on TV and try to resolve their idiot dispute in front of a judge who is usually an actor, you know, somebody at some legal credibility at some point in their life, but is now making tons of money, you know, entertaining people. Right. So the, these types of shows, um, I just, I, you know, just devour, I will, I will eat them like candy.

Speaker 1 (00:53:16):
I, I think you just beat my TV vice. That is, yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:53:19):
pretty bad. Isn't it? Yes.

Speaker 1 (00:53:22):
Especially the one where people go on and confess their things and get a judge.

Speaker 2 (00:53:26):
Yeah. No, oh yeah. I mean, there was, there was one guy who was, he cheated on his, on his, uh, wife or girlfriend or whatever. They were gonna get married as like a, like a court for, you know, deciding if the relationship should go forward, which is such a stupid thing to go to court about. But, um, but he said that the reason that he cheated was that, um, in society there's a ratio of five women, women for one man. And so he had no choice. He was just like stuck with, you know, the, the population ratio. And I was like, where does he get this? So first of all, it's a brilliant defense. Um, but secondly, it's like so, so wrong, you know, I mean, you could count people on the street and you won't come up with a five to one ratio of women to men.

Speaker 1 (00:54:11):
So, so you're working out with your browsing history, how to kill people, have an affair and how to justify it and defend it.

Speaker 2 (00:54:18):
But I love my wife dearly

Speaker 1 (00:54:22):
Love the way you laugh. Is that your tell, you just said that tell away

Speaker 2 (00:54:26):
Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 1 (00:54:32):
What, what's your favorite movie?

Speaker 2 (00:54:36):
My favorite movie. Um, so, uh,

Speaker 1 (00:54:41):
Fake attraction. Don't

Speaker 2 (00:54:43):
No, it's not attracted. I am. I'm just a sucker for courtroom stuff. And so, um, so, uh, um, a few good men is probably the one that I end up watching, you know, that I will always go, I will, I will always watch my wife laughs at me because if a few good men is on TV, I will be watching that if, um, uh, Scarface is on TV, I'll watch that. And if, um, Saturday night fever is on TV, I will watch that. And so, you know, I, I'm not like a, I love movies, but I'm not, you know, I'm not particularly artistic about it or, or anything like that. So I don't have a deep answer about, you know, what's your favorite movie? It's just stuff that I like

Speaker 1 (00:55:26):
To watch. You mentioned Saturday night fever. You've been to Isaac, obviously plenty of times what your dance floor moves. Like

Speaker 2 (00:55:33):
I've no, I, I usually don't stay for a party. Honestly. That's a work life balance thing, actually, you know, it's just you own

Speaker 1 (00:55:39):
Conference. It's

Speaker 2 (00:55:41):
Different. Yeah. I mean, I don't think, I, I can't remember if I went to the, so the, um, the, a Vancouver one that I chaired, I don't remember going to the, to the, after, you know, the party at close. Um, you know, and part of it is that you, you, you know, you kind of wanna be back with your family, you know, I mean, do, do you really want to see me do that? You know, or do I want to be back home with my wife and daughter? You know, I mean, I guess you wanna see me try to dance, but I mean, we do that's, that's all I wanna do.

Speaker 1 (00:56:16):
Okay. Uh, we are very nearly up to time, which is incredible. God, what's your bad habit. What's your worst bad habit.

Speaker 2 (00:56:26):
Uh, my worst bad habit is probably getting interested in lots of different things and, um, and then starting them up and, you know, and running out of time to pursue them. And I think that's become the bad habit bit lately. Um, just, uh, just not, not following through on, on new endeavors that I'm really legitimately excited about or taking too much time for me to follow through on those things. So, um, so yeah, and there's a little bit of procrastination in there. Okay. And, and courtroom shows are probably also a bad habit that I should give up, but

Speaker 1 (00:57:05):
Nice time. Yeah. What's your pet hate?

Speaker 2 (00:57:09):
My pet hate like pet peeve type thing.

Speaker 1 (00:57:11):
Yeah. What, what annoys you, someone else either? What annoys you in world or about people or what's your pet hate? Um,

Speaker 2 (00:57:19):
I, uh, this is a good question. Um, drives me absolutely insane. Um, so really mundane level, we get a lot of junk phone calls and junk mail and, you know, it drives me unnaturally insane. Um, you know, uh, so, so that's, that's certainly, um, a pet peeve just junk in my life, you know? Um, and when it comes to people, I think, um, I, I don't, I, I value, um, people who are very real about, you know, and, and I value positivity. So, you know, so my pet peeve is when people are overly negative and look for a reason that a problem can't be solved rather than, you know, trying a solution now.

Speaker 1 (00:58:12):
Yeah. Give, gimme a solution. Not a problem. Yeah, exactly. Definitely. And so finally, finally, what you think next challenges, what's the next big thing coming out in flow optometry in science, or just the next big challenge that has to be met?

Speaker 2 (00:58:29):
Uh, this is a, a great question. I think, um, I think the next big challenge centers around making something of the data that we can collect. So, you know, so high parameter work is, um, is accessible now and, and feasible for, for everyone. It's not just, you know, um, me having access to special equip custom equipment in Mario's lab. It's, um, it's everywhere now. And so we're collecting incredible amount of data. The question really is, um, is not so much, is that data good, but what are we gonna use that data for? And, um, and are we gonna maximize, and it's not a data question. It is really an experiment and study question. It's a biology question. So this is not really, there's no informatic solution to this. This is about us thinking about how we use the information that we glean. And right now we glean a ton of information and we use only a fraction of it.

(00:59:32):
And, um, and, um, and I think part of the problem is that, um, it, it's not, it's not just problem with not having the right tools. I think everybody just thinks that, you know, there's, there's gonna be some magic bioinformatic algorithm that will, you know, suddenly be the, the, the solution to this. And, you know, I don't think that there's just one solution to it or that it just lies in the informatics. It's, um, it's all of us think smartly, um, in our domains and coming up with new ways to use and maximize that information.

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
So I have to ask cuz you, you, haven't given a shout tag to it and it's only right to give you a chance to give it a shout tag. You've got your startup company, but you said you had two, uh, one

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
What's the, yeah, so we've got, so when I was at NYU, one of the, one of the things that I, you know, I I'm really proud of other than the work we did, um, in, uh, in various cancer settings and, you know, and understanding the immunology that was underlying them was, uh, was that we did come up with new tools for, um, for the high parameter, um, ecosystem. Um, so one of the new tools that we came up with was color real to help with experimental design, we license that to BD. Um, and then there, uh, is a data analysis platform that we develop. That's called Terra flow. That's rooted in commentator. It's rooted in the idea of, um, looking at all of the bullying combinations of markers that, that we measure and then identify, um, the populations that differ the most across patient groups and doing that in a, with a kind of, um, elegant and efficient, uh, way computationally.

(01:01:14):
And so what Terra flow does is it offers a platform for people to just upload their own data. They don't need to get their by own, to involved. They don't need a magic bioinformatic algorithm and they get this commentor based analysis that, um, uses machine learning to identify the populations that are most different across the patient groups then reduces that to the simplest combinations of markers that drive those differences and reports. And it reports all that information out in a really usable format, you know, as a, as a PDF, um, report, essentially it can easily be distributed amongst, um, you know, stakeholders who don't need to see a pretty graphic or don't need to try to understand what a Disney means or something like that, but really need to be walked through at a high level, um, what the results are. And, um, and so we, uh, have developed this we're in the process of spinning it out from NYU and the student who developed it is a really interesting story too, just really quickly.

(01:02:18):
He, um, came to me as an intern, uh, one summer through a summer program, um, decided to, uh, come back the next year and was applying to med school the next year, and then decided that he didn't want to go to medical school. And he was 97 percentile on his MCATs. Who's very qualified. He would've go gotten in easily. And he said, you know, can I spend a couple years in your lab? And, um, and, and work here and just learn and do computational stuff. And I was like, yeah, absolutely. Come on. And so, um, so I hired him for, uh, for lab tech positions, kind of a computational biologist lab tech hybrid. And, um, we were doing some work in this area of, um, data analysis and, uh, and he said to me, you know, I have a better way to do this. Um, can I try it out?

(01:03:07):
And I was like, yeah, you can always try it out, but I don't think you're gonna succeed. I, I really doubted that he was gonna, you know, solve the, solve the problem so elegantly, and he's amazing. He's just, he, he came to it, um, and, and develop a really elegant solution for it. And now as CEO of that company, he's gone to, um, Harvard for graduate school and, you know, we're, um, trying to get the license out from NYU to, uh, for this company that'll should happen shortly. Um, the, uh, and the company has had some good, um, successes that I don't want to talk about on, uh, on a recording, but, um, but, you know, has, has some, you know, uh, wants awards. Let's just put it that way. So, um, and so, uh, so we're, you know, we're really proud of what's going on there too. It

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Has traction and we are up just over the hour T thank you so much for joining me today. I think actually these been really, really inspiring for people to listen to, or watch about how you take the confidence to move out of academia and into industry and how cool it can look. I, I so want to sit on the room on the right, and I'll just watch you work on the left. It is just S easy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
So if you ever come to New York or when you come to Philadelphia for a, or for cyto, um, you know, we're, we're about, we're a couple hours up from Philadelphia, um, you know, a little short of two hours and, uh, I invite you to come and see, uh, see what doing science in the community is like, you know, it's, um, it's, it's really, uh, it's such a great vibe here that is, uh, is, is different in, um, and I, I think really connects us in a way that, that hasn't worked before. And

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
I'm sure being, as you are actually based in what was a Pilate's room, uh, I'm sure you'll stretch the company to its max. Anyway, on that note, Fred and everyone for listening to both stars and watching today. Thank you very much. Don't forget to go catch up on the others. Uh, you heard about Gary Nolan, he air to go and watch and listen, and so go see what else today. Petite. Thank you very much.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Yeah, it's my pleasure. Thank you.